Except we've see what happens when you try to "correct" that alignment: you get wildly bigoted output. After Grok called for another Holocaust, Elon Musk said that it's "surprisingly hard to avoid both woke libtard cuck and mechahitler" [1]. The Occam's Razor explanation is that there's just not that much ideological space between an "anti-woke" model and a literal Nazi!

[1] https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1944132781745090819

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taneq 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

There’s a simpler explanation, to do with the veracity of that tweet.

	▲	jakelazaroff 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		True, the simplest explanation is that Elon Musk is actually trying to create MechaHitler :)

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landl0rd 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I mean this is obviously a false dichotomy. A few years ago I could have said that when you let bots interact with users you always got Tay. I refuse to believe that our options are a bot programmed to sound like the guardian or one that wants to rape will stancil. And I do not think that failing to find a correct balance means we should stop trying to improve the level of balance we can achieve.

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intermerda 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

What about a bot that doesn't like child molesters? Won't that make it sound like the guardian and anti-conservative?

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jakelazaroff 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

My point is that "anti-woke" or whatever is not balanced. We've constructed statistical models based on enormous corpora of English text, and those models keep telling us that there is not really a statistical difference between whatever Elon Musk is trying to create and MechaHitler!

I'm not saying this is conclusive evidence, but I am saying it's our best inference from the data we have so far.

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zmgsabst 2 days ago | parent [-]

Or that rhetoric like yours is common, so LLMs conflate unrelated ideas — such as opposition to neo-Marxist philosophy and Nazism.

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jakelazaroff 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Nazism and anti-Marxism are absolutely not unrelated! And that's not just rhetoric like mine, either: for example, the hero image on the Britannica article "Were the Nazis Socialists?" is a banner at Nazi parade that reads "Death to Marxism". [1]

That doesn't mean that anti-Marxists are all Nazis, or vice versa. But the claim that they're totally unrelated is not correct at all.

[1] https://www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists

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zmgsabst 2 days ago | parent [-]

I’m still having trouble finding the gap between fascism and socialism, when reading their manifesto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto

> That doesn't mean that anti-Marxists are all Nazis, or vice versa. But the claim that they're totally unrelated is not correct at all.

This is a heavily propagandized topic — and the conflating of, eg, American liberal capitalist opposition to Marxism as “Nazi” is both a result of that and modern dishonest rhetoric.

That rhetoric confuses LLMs.

	▲	jakelazaroff 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Conflating socialism with fascism and then claiming that other people are confusing LLMs? The heavy propaganda is coming from inside the house!

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2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[deleted]

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timdev2 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Isn't strident opposition to "neo-Marxist philosophy" actually highly correlated with weird/reactionary ethno-nationalism?

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zmgsabst 2 days ago | parent [-]

No, eg, liberal capitalist Americans oppose Marxism — and the adoption of neo-Marxist ideas has collapsed movie and game sales because their ideology is widely unpopular.

That’s a trope by Marxists to attempt to normalize alt-left ideology by accusing anyone who objects of being Nazis; a trope that’s become tired in the US and minimizes the true radical nature of the Nazi regime.

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saubeidl 2 days ago | parent [-]

Which movies and games call for shared ownership of the means of production?

I have a suspicion you don't really know what Marxism is about, but like using it because it sounds scary to you.

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jakelazaroff 2 days ago | parent [-]

Notice the motte and bailey here: using the uncontroversial "liberal capitalist Americans oppose Marxism" claim to advance the idea that whatever social views they call "neo-Marxism" are unpopular.

	▲	saubeidl 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		...and to further smear Marxism by associating it with whatever is unpopular, even if it's unrelated to the ideology.

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saubeidl 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Please define "neo-Marxist philosophy".

As an actual Marxist, I would love to hear of this strain of philosophy.

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zmgsabst 2 days ago | parent [-]

Marxism equipped with “critical theories”, typically focused on tribal grievance narratives rather than class struggle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Marxism

That answers your sibling reply as well, as it’s clear where such “critical theories” and grievance narratives have entered movies and games.

	▲	saubeidl 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		That is not a definition. What is the philosophical framework? What is critically analyzed by those theories? What is "clear"? Where are all the bad bad Marxists hiding? In my experience, y'know, as a Marxist, all Hollywood has ever pumped out is pro-capitalist propaganda. To say there's any Marxism in it is downright insulting. I believe that Marxism has become an abstract target for conservatives to project their grievances on. Zizek also spoke to this at his debate with Peterson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDOSOQLLO-U

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daveidol 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Or there’s not sufficient published material in that space because everyone is afraid of being attacked and called a Nazi for simply having a dissenting opinion (except for actual neo Nazis who don’t care)

	▲	bakuninsbart 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Could you provide a prompt where the popular LLMs provide false or biased output based on "wokeness"?