I think about the Segway a lot. It's a good example. Man, what a wild time. Everyone was so excited and it was held in mystery for so long. People had tried it in secret and raved about it on television. Then... they showed it... and... well...

I got to try one once. It was very underwhelming...

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anovikov 19 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Problem with Segway was that it was made in USA and thus was absurdly, laughably expensive, it cost the same as a good used car and top versions, as a basic new car. Once a small bunch of rich people all bought one, it was over. China simply wasn't in position at a time yet to copycat and mass-produce it cheaply, and hype cycles usually don't repeat so by the time it could, it was too late. If it was invented 10 years later we'd all ride $1000-$2000 Segways today.

	▲	haiku2077 19 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> If it was invented 10 years later we'd all ride $1000-$2000 Segways today. I chat with the guy who works nights at my local convenience store about our $1000-2000 e-scooters. We both use them more than we use our cars.

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positron26 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm going to hold onto the Segway as an actual instance of hype the next time someone calls LLMs "hype".

LLMs have hundreds of millions of users. I just can't stress how insane this was. This wasn't built on the back of Facebook or Instagram's distribution like Threads. The internet consumer has never so readily embraced something so fast.

Calling LLMs "hype" is an example of cope, judging facts based on what is hoped to be true even in the face of overwhelming evidence or even self-evident imminence to the contrary.

I know people calling "hype" are motivated by something. Maybe it is a desire to contain the inevitable harm of any huge rollout or to slow down the disruption. Maybe it's simply the egotistical instinct to be contrarian and harvest karma while we can still feign to be debating shadows on the wall. I just want to be up front. It's not hype. Few people calling "hype" can believe that this is hype and anyone who does believes it simply isn't credible. That won't stop people from jockeying to protect their interests, hoping that some intersubjective truth we manufacture together will work in their favor, but my lord is the "hype" bandwagon being dishonest these days.

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Nevermark 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I know people calling "hype" are motivated by something.

You had me until you basically said, "and for my next trick, I am going to make up stories".

Projecting is what happens when someone doesn't understand some other people, and from that somehow concludes that they do understand those other people, and feels the need to tell everyone what they now "know" about those people, that even those people don't know about themselves.

Stopping at "I don't understand those people." is always a solid move. Alternately, consciously recognizing "I don't understand those people", followed up with "so I am going to ask them to explain their point of view", is a pretty good move too.

	▲	positron26 13 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> so I am going to ask them to explain their point of view In times when people are being more honest. There's a huge amount of perverse incentive to chase internet points or investment or whatever right now. You don't get honest answers without reading between the lines in these situations. It's important to do because after a few rounds of battleship, when people get angry, they slip something out like, "Elon Musk" or "big tech" etc and you can get a feel that they're angry that a Nazi was fiddling in government etc, that they're less concerned about overblown harm from LLMs and in fact more concerned that the tech will wind up excessively centralized, like they have seen other winner-take-all markets evolve. Once you get people to say what they really believe, one way or another, you can fit actual solutions in place instead of just short-sighted reactions that tend to accomplish nothing beyond making a lot of noise along the way to the same conclusion.

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obirunda 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's an interesting comparison, because Segway really didn't have any real users or explosive growth, so it was certainly hype. It was also hardware with a large cost. LLMs are indeed more akin to Google Search where adoption is relatively frictionless.

I think the core issue is separating the perception of value versus actual value. There have been a couple of studies to this effect, pointing to a misalignment towards overestimating value and productivity boosts.

One reason this happens imo, is because we sequester a good portion of the cognitive load of our thinking to the latter parts of the process so when we are evaluating the solution we are primed to think we have saved time when the solution is sufficiently correct, or if we have to edit or reposition it by re-rolling, we don't account for the time spent because we may feel we didn't do anything.

I feel like this type of discussion is effectively a top topic every day. To me, the hype is not in the utility it does have but in its future utility. The hype is based on the premise that these tools and their next iteration can and will make all knowledge-based work obsolete, but crucially, will yield value in areas of real need; cancer, aging, farming, climate, energy and etc.

If these tools stop short of those outcomes, then the investment all of SV has committed to it at this point will have been over invested and

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spjt 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> LLMs have hundreds of millions of users. I just can't stress how insane this was. This wasn't built on the back of Facebook or Instagram's distribution like Threads. The internet consumer has never so readily embraced something so fast.

Maybe it's more like Pogs.