| ▲ | vaughands 16 hours ago |
| Seriously, what is the benefit to the US here? I can't understand how this benefits the country at all. |
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| ▲ | kumarvvr 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| If Iran has nukes, then a nuke race will start in the middle East, especially with Saudis, who will want their own nukes. Iran getting nukes is the spark that will start a lot of chain reactions. And islamic populations are radicalized enough that the possibility of a nuke on Israel increases dramatically. |
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| ▲ | selcuka 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > If Iran has nukes, then a nuke race will start in the middle East A fair concern, but it is interesting that although "estimates of Israel's stockpile range between 90 and 400 nuclear warheads" [1], we are not concerned about those warheads as much as we do about the ones Iran might have. Should US bomb Israeli nuclear plants? No. Should they have bombed the Iranian ones? Why? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel | | |
| ▲ | buzzerbetrayed 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Maybe it has something to do with Israel being an ally and Iran sponsoring terrorism all over the region | |
| ▲ | partiallypro 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We didn't want Israel to have nukes either, we tried to stop them and failed. We wouldn't bomb Israel's nukes because they -already- have them, and they have grown in a semi-reliable regional ally since then. We are trying to stop Iran from having them at all to prevent them from being essentially off-limits to retaliation (note Iran is the #1 state sponsor of terrorism / people's fears of supporting Ukraine given Russia keeps threatening nuclear action) and kicking off a regional nuclear arms race. | |
| ▲ | yonisto 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | heavyset_go 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Death to Arabs is an anti-Arab slogan originating in Israel. It is often used during protests and civil disturbances across Israel, the West Bank, and to a lesser extent, the Gaza Strip. Depending on the person's temperament, it may specifically be an expression of anti-Palestinianism or otherwise a broader expression anti-Arab sentiment, which includes non-Palestinian Arabs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_to_Arabs | | | |
| ▲ | all_factz 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Have you been to Israel? I have cousins there. When I was 14 and visited, my 19 year old cousin told me we need to kill all the Arabs because “if we exile them, they will just come back.” Do you really think (a large segment of) Israelis are less crazy than (a large segment of) Iranians? | |
| ▲ | vFunct 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Israel has always threatened its neighbors. Remember, it was born as a group of European Jews that attacked Palestine to conquer their land, with arms provided to them by Europe. It will always exist under a state of war. We have to let Israel die off and change our alliances. An alliance with Iran would be much more beneficial to America than an alliance with Israel. | | |
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| ▲ | danenania 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think this attack makes it more likely they’ll get nukes, not less. They moved all their enriched uranium already, and now they know that there’s no longer any point in diplomacy. The next facilities they build will be a few times deeper, and I have no doubt we’ll soon be hearing that ground troops are the only way to stop them. | | |
| ▲ | dlubarov 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They had already crossed the line into nuclear tech that's specifically for weapons, i.e. with a 400kg stockpile of uranium enriched to 60%. Unless we accept explanations like "scientific curiosity", they were already somewhere in the process of building nuclear weapons, even if success wasn't immanent. I don't know how long these operations will set them back, but if the Iranian regime won't willingly refrain from nuclear weapons work, isn't a delay better than nothing? | | |
| ▲ | jjk166 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | 60% enrichment is not weapons grade. Weapons grade is 80%. High enrichment is used in certain reactor designs, such as naval reactors. There are a lot of reasons to be enriching uranium besides building nuclear weapons. Considering the US reneged on its deal to drop sanctions in exchange for Iran to not enrich uranium, it is pretty obviously useful as a bargaining chip, in the negotiations. The US intelligence community assessed that Iran has not been working on a bomb since the program was shut down in 2003. They didn't want a nuke, they wanted an end to sanctions. They further wanted to avoid provoking exactly this sort of conflict. This did not delay them getting nuclear weapons, it will make them get nuclear weapons. | | |
| ▲ | dlubarov 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | To quote an ISIS report, "Iran has no civilian use or justification for its production of 60 percent enriched uranium, particularly at the level of hundreds of kilograms". In theory it could be for naval propulsion, but experts (including IAEA inspectors) seem unconvinced. | | |
| ▲ | jjk166 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | They had a very obvious use for it: trade it to the US in exchange for sanctions relief. |
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| ▲ | danenania 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They “could have” had nuclear weapons for a long time if they’d wanted to, yes, but they didn’t get them. They signed the NPT, allowed inspections, and their ruler issued a fatwa against developing nuclear weapons. Why’d they do all that if their goal all along was to get a nuclear weapon? They could have just done it. These attacks make it clear that they would have been better off if they had gotten them, so it seems reasonable to assume this will be their new policy. What other strategic choice have they been left with? | | |
| ▲ | dlubarov 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Just to clarify, is your position that Iran was never working toward nuclear weapons, or just not until recently? I think enriching uranium to 60% is pretty clear evidence of their intent, even though it's just one component of an eventual weapon. Being an NPT signatory could be evidence of Iran not working toward nuclear weapons, if they were compliant. But they have violated their NPT obligations on some occasions, with major violations recently. | | |
| ▲ | danenania 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think they wanted to be seen as credibly close as a deterrent and bargaining chip in negotiations, but they had no intention of going all the way unless attacked. Now they likely do intend to get them asap if they’re able to. |
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| ▲ | mupuff1234 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Those can be bombed right at the beginning. Israel will probably try to establish a similar status que as in Lebanon right now - "if you make a move we immediately take it out". And the development of a nuclear sites leaves a significant intelligence trail, not sure it can be hidden. (Of course they can always be gifted a bomb, but that's a very different story) | | |
| ▲ | danenania 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah I’m sure it will be a huge success with no unforeseen consequences whatsoever. Since that’s how these things have been going over the last thirty years. | | |
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| ▲ | nashashmi 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Islamic populations? | | |
| ▲ | kumarvvr 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Most of Islamic republics are fiefdoms, kingdoms and dictatorships. Most of the populations are radicalized, and have very limited freedom of speech and right to protest. | | |
| ▲ | Ar-Curunir 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Have you lived in any of these Islamic countries? | | |
| ▲ | booleandilemma 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You just have to read a wikipedia article on them. No need to live there. | |
| ▲ | kumarvvr 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Is that a pre-condition to know about countries, leaderships and general public? I have not lived in the US, and I know a lot about the US national character. | | |
| ▲ | Ar-Curunir 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, I would say that making sweeping statements about a populace does require actual first-hand experience with said populace. |
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| ▲ | jenny91 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Almost a kind of domino theory, if you will? | |
| ▲ | vFunct 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | And that's something we will have to accept, that Islamic populations will always have nukes. How do you plan to handle a world with Islamic populations having nukes? Because that's something you will have to plan for. You have no choice. They will not let you not let them have nukes. They will make sure they will have nukes. That's just given. |
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| ▲ | proc0 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The US is the leader of the liberal empire which depends on the middle east allowing trade. Iran is standing in the way of this and wants to push back the empire's control away from the middle east... but they have their own plans to establish another empire of their own. I know "empire" is maybe an outdated term but I'm just illustrating there are bigger incentives than at the national level. Ironically it is conservative nationalists (who are hated by the Left) that want the empire to shrink and for the US to pull back from this leadership position. The risk here is it could also destabilize the entire world, but that's a different matter. In short, this move is an attempt to strengthen the status quo that began after WW2.If the status quo is maintained it directly benefits the US. |
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| ▲ | Workaccount2 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | People who were born into, grew up in, and live the current western bubble take it for granted and genuinely believe it is something natural rather than carefully built and expensively maintained - for extraordinary benefit. | | |
| ▲ | frollogaston 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't take it for granted, but Israel and these trillion-dollar Mid East wars don't seem to help it. China and Russia must be very pleased with the US being so distracted for the past 50 years while they established economic control even in the Mid East. | |
| ▲ | tombh 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If I had only one wish, it would be to burst this bubble. | |
| ▲ | komali2 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > for extraordinary benefit. I'm seeing a lot of death and the payoff is... Cheap gas prices? I can't imagine what. But the replies to this laying out all the benefits of blood soaked American hegemony I'm sure will be great for a laugh. | | |
| ▲ | MegaButts 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The petrodollar, which largely depends on the US having significant influence over global oil supply, is arguably the main reason why the USD is the global reserve currency and an enormous reason why the US is as wealthy as it is. | | |
| ▲ | dralley 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | The petrodollar is severely overrated by people who claim it's the cause for every foreign policy decision they disagree with. USD is attractive because the US government is stable and US companies are attractive investments, due to a historical track record of competence and rule of law adherence - unlike, say, Saudi currency, or Russian currency, or Chinese currency. The US government doesn't do a lot of currency manipulation relative to those other countries either. Of course, that historical record is being shat upon currently, and the importance of petroleum is on a downward trajectory from here on. |
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| ▲ | frollogaston 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We aren't even really getting cheap gas prices out of this. Iran is one of the largest oil producers, and we won't allow trade with them, so instead we've built a relationship with other dictatorships like Saudi Arabia, who know we have no other choice. But our actions are also straining that. |
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| ▲ | guelo 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is the opposite of how I see it. This move is a complete repudiation of the post-ww2 order that emphasized the system of international laws and treaties developed by the UN. For the US to blindly follow Israel into a war with a sovereign country without even taking it to the UN or Congress is preposterous and signals the end of the post-ww2 and American domestic order. Both the UN Charter and the US Constitution are trashed and we won't recover from it in our life times. There's a reason Bush W sent Colin Powell to the UN, we still paid lip service to the rule of law 20 years ago. We don't even pretend anymore. We are trashing our laws and institution all at the behest of some a tiny racist religious extremist country. | | |
| ▲ | lunar-whitey 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don’t envy the position of American diplomats the next time they are asked to negotiate an off-ramp from hostilities while military options are simultaneously being considered. Intentional or not, the diplomatic posture leading up to this point reads like diversion. | |
| ▲ | jaybrendansmith 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is also how I see it. This child-man has just blown 80 years of careful control and credibility. Who allowed this to happen? A bunch of feckless children, who should never have been allowed to rule. Way to go, people. It all goes downhill from here. | |
| ▲ | nocoiner 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I hate how much I agree with this assessment. | |
| ▲ | proc0 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "the system of international laws and treaties" are only effective to the extent that someone is going to enforce it, and that someone is the US and its allies. So ultimately it's military power that matters. The status quo is only maintained because the US has military bases all over the world. If we retreat from the world and let Iran do whatever it wants (which is more influence and an Islamic empire), the the world order crumbles and that has an even more increased chance of WW3, as multiple nations will fight over the void left behind by the US. Part of the reason things are unfolding this way is because the US rose to world power with the invention of the nuclear bomb.... which automatically means that toppling the US might mean nuclear war, which spells doom for the entire world. Not sure I would call that luck, but that is why the world cannot change to a new world order easily without existential risk. And as the "world police" the US doesn't want non-allies to get the bomb for this reason (something that Trump has been saying for years, which proves he is just maintaining status quo). | |
| ▲ | cloverich 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You realize we (us) are a large, religious, racist country? Generally speaking, anti muslim, anti Iran sentiment is EXTREMELY high in the parts of the US that voted for Trump, at least based on my personal network. |
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| ▲ | macintux 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Trump has undermined the status quo at every opportunity. He feels the US hasn’t been compensated for its efforts. | |
| ▲ | hiddencost 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Nonsense. The history of the US is one of regime change wars and genocide. |
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| ▲ | arandomusername 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It doesn't. It's all because Israel has extreme influence over US politicians. |
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| ▲ | jandrewrogers 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Keeping the Arab world from building their own nuclear weapons has long been contingent on Iran not having a nuclear weapons program. It only benefits the US to the extent it prevents the situation where half the countries in the Middle East having nuclear weapons. |
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| ▲ | PeterHolzwarth 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Good lord, it benefits far more than just America if the broader middle east doesn't enter into a rapid nuclear weapons proliferation stage. Iran is considered to be a very serious enemy throughout much of the middle east. A nuclear armed Iran is a very bad idea. | |
| ▲ | 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | Jtsummers 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It benefits the MIC, this is unlikely to be the end of this conflict. |
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| ▲ | slv77 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This paper from 1999 provides some context about the US and Israel relationship in the context of nuclear weapons in the Middle East. The third temple's holy of holies : Israel's nuclear weapons https://dp.la/item/525bc46d51878c5e285d9069a80246d0 |
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| ▲ | kaycebasques 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is my honest assessment of the calculus of the move. Please don't interpret any of this as me personally supporting or approving of these motives. I'm just trying to have a genuine intellectual discussion about the potential thought processes of our collective leaders. * Quick, victorious wars can be incredibly popular domestically, regardless of whether surveys say that only 16% of the US population supports the war. Trump needs an approval ratings boost. The global tariff shock was a PR disaster. A quick, victorious war is a tried-and-true approval rating booster over the last 200-300 years. The key, of course, is actually keeping the war truly short and victorious. If it drags on, or if people start asking "have we truly won?", then that's a whole different matter. * We have moved out of a unipolar geopolitical world and into a multipolar one. The USA is checking the ambitions of the rival powers. Want to invade Ukraine? Sure, go ahead and try, but it will be a multi-year slog. Want to go for years maybe developing nuclear weapons, maybe not, and making US antagonism a central part of your political platform? Watch us systematically attack your nuclear program and and air power and do highly targeted assassinations of your political elites over the course of two weeks. Want to invade Taiwan? Look at what happened in Ukraine and Iran and maybe reset your expectations about how that will pan out. * There has been a lot of questioning lately around whether the US will actually help their allies when they're in a pinch. This is sending a pretty strong message of reassurance to allies. * Trump may actually want things to escalate to a point where he can reasonably declare martial law within the US. How do you stay in power when you've already hit your two-term constitutional limit? Your question was "how does it benefit the US?" but I don't think that's answerable because everyone has a different take on what's best for the US. It's much more feasible to discuss "how does it benefit Trump?" or "how does it maintain US's position as a world power?" |
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| ▲ | twelve40 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| the dude needs a PR win of some kind. I guess he gave up on the Nobel prize and decided to try something else. Aside from that, could really be a chance to end the nukes there and try to topple the regime, who knows what's going to happen, but time-wise now is the best opportunity. |
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| ▲ | Schnitz 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The world is better off if a theocracy whose leadership believes in jihad doesn’t have nukes. |
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| ▲ | scythe 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If this was about the benefit to the United States, then we would have had months of public buildup and debate like we did with the war in Iraq. It is hardly an example of a good decision, but history shows that it was at least a popular one; the majority of poll respondents and of legislators were both in favor of the initial invasion of Iraq. I was only eleven at the time, but I remember most moderate Democrats and independents who I knew (including, particularly, my seventh-grade history teacher, who was no fan of Bush) were in favor of the war. Contrast that to the situation today, when polls show Americans are overwhelmingly opposed to involvement [1] and even some prominent Republican legislators (Gaetz, IIRC) were against the war. This is the Trump show: it's motivated by his ego and hopium. He's more erratic than ever. Historically, American presidents almost never started a major war without popular support (Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq were all popular when they started, and I think Libya and Kosovo were too). I can't even think of a case where the country was dragged into a war that was opposed 60% to 16% in favor. I would be very interested to hear if there ever was one. 1: https://www.axios.com/2025/06/19/israel-iran-war-americans-p... |
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| ▲ | alephnerd 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | yongjik 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Ironically, South Korea wanted to do this to North Korea in 2003 Where did you get that info? Makes no sense. South Korea has been consistently against starting another war with NK for at least 30 years or so, and besides, in 2003 South Korea was ruled by Kim Dae-Jung, famous for he's staunch support of improving relations with North Korea (he got a Nobel prize for that), and then Roh Moo-Hyun, from the same party and largely following Kim's foreign policy. Thanks to them we had no wars, and of course now we have some young whippersnappers complaining about their "pro-NK" policies, saying we could have totally bombed NK, starting a war, and burning the peninsula to the ground, but at least North Korea won't have nukes today! | | |
| ▲ | alephnerd 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | This was during the 2002-03 standoff during which the Yeongpyeong crisis occured. It was after the Six Party Talks started in Aug 2003 that tensions started cooling down, before North Korea stunned the world in 2006. Edit: though now that I think about it, I might be confusing this incident with the 1993-94 incident. |
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| ▲ | netsharc 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Re: Death to America. Why don't you go die! I don't mean it literally, read:
https://www.mypersiancorner.com/death-to-america-explained-o... Isn't it great when people take things out of context? In this case the context that wishing death is quite common in Iranian expressions of frustrations? | | |
| ▲ | _heimdall 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I understand that the phrase is intended to call for the end of the US government, not the end of the US people. That even better supports my point though. Diplomacy is between two governments, not one government and the population of another government. Iran has practiced diplomacy at times, but calling for the end of the US government wouldn't exactly fit well in the implied reality of Iran having done everything they could diplomatically. | |
| ▲ | 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | goatlover 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | While I understand not wanting countries like North Korea and Iran having nukes, it does protect them from invasion. We've seen what happened after Ukraine gave up their nukes. Less we forget, the Neocons of the Bush era wanted to remake the entire Middle East, not just Iraq and Afghanistan. | | |
| ▲ | klipt 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > nukes ... protect them from invasion Israel has nukes and Hamas still invaded them. Perhaps nukes protect you from invasion by rational actors, but I don't think they work on zealots. | | |
| ▲ | jjk166 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | And yet Israel does not denuclearize. I certainly hope Iran's adversaries are rational actors. |
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| ▲ | alephnerd 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Nukes alone do not prevent invasions. You need to have delivery mechanisms like medium/long range ballistic missiles and second strike capabilities like SLCMs. | | |
| ▲ | cempaka 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Iran has been amply demonstrating their missile capabilities on the city of Tel Aviv for the past week. | | |
| ▲ | alephnerd 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | fzeroracer 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It seems like we're already seeing people here attempt to manufacture consent for a war with Iran. Frankly you're not going to have a very strong chance of convincing me given Israel's actions over the past few years. | |
| ▲ | megous 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Disarm Israel. And bomb it too if it will resist. |
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| ▲ | pfannkuchen 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Which country with nukes has been invaded? |
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| ▲ | fzeroracer 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The actions of the US and Israel are only proving an unfortunate trend of reality: The only deterrence against invasion from other countries is nuclear deterrence. We had a comprehensive deal with Iran to limit their nuclear program which Trump tore up in 2017 and which Israel is taking advantage of today. | | |
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| ▲ | s5300 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | mslansn 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | andsoitis 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | shihab 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I understand Iran is a headache to Israel, but did it have to be an enemy of USA? Isn't Iran's ambition, and its proxies, are all regional in nature? Have they ever attempted to harm an american living in America? Israel has led an amazingly succesful campaign in presenting their problems (often arising out of their territorial ambitions) as a problem for the entire west. | | |
| ▲ | Workaccount2 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Letting a death cult of religious zealots have nukes is an awful idea for the entire world. | | |
| ▲ | wudangmonk 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I agree which is why we need to get all these evangelical nuts actively trying to destroy the world so that Jesus come back out of power. No more death cults!. | |
| ▲ | ndiddy 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Agreed, I also support the denuclearization of Israel. | | | |
| ▲ | goatlover 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Religious zealots close to power also exist in Israel and the US. | | | |
| ▲ | Ar-Curunir 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So, Israel then? |
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| ▲ | nailer 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Iran has killed a bunch of Americans, but typically not inside America. Here’s a list, make of that what you want: https://x.com/chalavyishmael/status/1936107345093996775?s=46 | |
| ▲ | andsoitis 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The US has many economic and strategic interests in the Middle East. The US is leaving many moments for Iran to come to the table to stop building towards nuclear power. | |
| ▲ | infamouscow 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Khamenei is largely popular, even though the youth of Iran largely doesn't support the regime at a whole. The root problem is the military is controlled by various factions of lunatics that want to see the end of Israel. It's these people ought to be mercilessly killed and I have no qualms once so ever advocating for brutal violence and (preferably) murder against them. |
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| ▲ | jjk166 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The Netherlands and Germany both produce highly enriched uranium despite not having nuclear weapons programs. 60% enrichment is insufficient for use in nuclear weapons. Iran's enriched uranium is its main bargaining chip in the diplomatic negotiations that the US walked away from. Iran was assessed by the US intelligence community to not be developing nuclear weapons. | | | |
| ▲ | logankeenan 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorist groups. The key word being “state”. There are many well known terrorist groups that are not sponsored by Iran. | |
| ▲ | standardUser 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Iran was willing to "come to a diplomatic negotiation" before Israel pre-emptively and unilaterally attacked. In fact, Iran and the US had found a diplomatic solution before Trump tore it up and promised to get a better deal (and then repeatedly failed to do so). | |
| ▲ | Buttons840 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Iran is the foremost sponsor of terrorism. How much does Iran spend sponsoring terrorism? | |
| ▲ | dakiol 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And yet the only country in the history of humankind that has dropped not one but two nuclear bombs: the usa. So tired of american bullshit. | |
| ▲ | fatbird 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Iran did come to a diplomatic solution: the JCPOA [0]. Unfortunately, it was Obama who did it, so Trump tore it up in his first term. Why would Iran believe that any diplomatic outcome is meaningful? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Ac... | |
| ▲ | hiddencost 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | |
| ▲ | vFunct 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why must we stop Iran's terrorism? Their terrorism is directed at Israel, not America. We can in fact just as easily support Iran's attacks against Israel. No reason to pick either side. Right now the American people are coming to the consensus that Israel are the bad guys. Everybody under 50 already recognizes that, purely based on the thousands of Palestinian toddlers they see on Instagram that Israel kills and injures (the popular post today on Instagram is of a toddler with his legs severed). And the people over 50 will eventually die off, causing Israel's base of support to disappear. There is no hope of Israel's permanent existence. We should remove our support for Israel immediately and prepare for the long term. | | |
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| ▲ | tehjoker 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| they are trying to cut off chinas oil, settle a score, and defend "greater israel" they are also punishing iran for selling oil in their national currency imperialism run amok |
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| ▲ | thinkcontext 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | If they wanted to disrupt China's oil wouldn't they have hit the main export terminal on Kharg Island? More generally, you don't think its likely that, regardless of what you think of Israel, their main motivation is they don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon? | | |
| ▲ | tehjoker 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | > If they wanted to disrupt China's oil wouldn't they have hit the main export terminal on Kharg Island? They aren't ready to directly start that war. They are trying to cut off the alliances first. Iran is a much smaller country (90M vs over a billion) with a lot of oil. Conveniently, Iran is already so dehumanized many Americans don't even recognize their rights to sovereignty. > their main motivation is they don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon? No. They have been trying to attack Iran since the revolution. It's similar to how Cuba embarrassed America and was never forgiven. If Iran wanted a weapon they'd have one. However, these attacks may force Iran to get one because countries with nuclear weapons appear to actually have sovereignty. Iran of course retains the possibility of making one, hoping that will have the same effect, but it appears that doesn't do it. |
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| ▲ | FridayoLeary 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Oil for starters. Iran is the principle destabilising element in the middle east. By proxy they are participating in every conflict. A nuclear iran would be completely intolerable, never mind that their regime might just be lunatic enough to use them. Add that war is bad for the whole world. So the us benefits that it protects her economic (and strategic) interests in the ME, which are real and extremely important, at the low cost of a limited air campaign. There are further moral arguments, but i'm answering your question in the most direct way. |
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| ▲ | twixfel 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Israel is the principal destabilising element in the Middle East. It cannot even be argued at this point. It's them, the Israelis. | | |
| ▲ | FridayoLeary an hour ago | parent [-] | | That is true in much the same way that the UK caused ww2 by refusing to make peace with the Germans in 1940. Or the soviets for selfishly resisting their invasion attempt. Israel doesn't start any wars, it just finishes them. Hamas, hezbolla, syria, yemen and iran started up with Israel for no good reason. So they end up with a bloody nose. That's on them. | | |
| ▲ | twixfel an hour ago | parent [-] | | Israel is committing genocide in Gaza as we speak and is expanding settlements more and more in the West Bank. The end game of the Israelis is very clearly complete ethnic cleansing. Israel is no victim here, it's a settler colonialist state that happens to be successful in being a settler colonialist state. > Hamas, hezbolla, syria, yemen and iran started up with Israel for no good reason If the UN decided to put a country for the Roma in the middle of India, how do you think that turn out? Very well or very badly? Is it surprising that everything turned out so badly in the ME with regards Israel? Seems obvious to me that putting a new country in the middle of a colony just as said colony is gaining independence seems like a shit idea? Simply put, the very creation of Israel was fundamentally destabilising. We basically torpedoed our relations with the entire Islamic world (and especially the Arab world) just for the sake of some mostly (at that time) European colonists in Israel (who later became Israelis). That was retarded as shit. Say what you like about how good it was for the Israelis, but for us that was shit geopolitics, shit realpolitik, and a shit deal. Israel has now, rather predictably, become an ethnofascist state run by a (war)criminal. And we enabled them the whole way. And for what??? How exactly has anyone in the West actually benefited from this? It was clearly good for Israel and for Israelis, but how have we benefited from this??? |
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| ▲ | komali2 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's seeming more and more like Israel, which propped up Hamas for example, is the principal destabilizing element in the region, and therefore really it's America, which spearheaded the original overthrow of Iranian democracy, alongside all its other middle eastern meddling for the last fifty years. | |
| ▲ | shihab 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Iran is the principle destabilising element in the middle east Says Israel, the nation who tore up every single international laws, directly led campaign against UN and ICC, and whose right-wing (ones in power now) have been dreaming about a Greater Israel that threatens territorial integrity of like 10 different ME countries. | |
| ▲ | 34679 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Oil If we want their oil, we can buy it like reasonable people do. What you're referring to is armed robbery. >Iran is the principle destabilising element in the middle east Is this a joke? The country that has not started any wars in its 300 year existence is not the "destabilizing element". That would be the country that has attacked Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, and Iran this year alone. | | |
| ▲ | amluto 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is a strange comparison. Iran funds the Houthis, for example, who commit plenty of acts of war. And if you’re talking about starting wars, it’s worth noting that the present war in Gaza was started by Hamas. (I’m making no statement about whether the actions of either side or justified — I’m just pointing out that, in the present shooting war, the first shots were fired by Hamas, not Israel.) | | |
| ▲ | 34679 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | You ignore decades of aggression and occupation in Gaza, along with the 4 other countries Israel has decided to launch wars against this year. "But Hamas" is not a convincing argument. | | |
| ▲ | amluto 13 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I’m not ignoring anything. The situation in Gaza and elsewhere has been horrible for decades. Israel has imposed various forms of nastiness on Gaza, and I imagine that Israel’s government and many of its people saw some of that nastiness (heavy handed restrictions on imports to Gaza for example) as necessary, since Hamas quite regularly converted whatever materials they could into weapons to fire across the border into Israel. Meanwhile, I imagine that Hamas, and many of the people of Gaza, saw that as necessary because Israel treated them poorly. It was a catch-22. Meanwhile, Iran most definitely interfered heavily from the sidelines, and I imagine that Iran’s government had reasons that seemed valid to them. The situation was and remains unstable, and the factors that made it unstable were did not come from just one place. And you don’t have to look hard to find acts of war initiated by multiple different parties in the area. I think that claiming that any one country “decided to launch wars” against multiple other parties ignores a whole lot of complexity. |
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| ▲ | FridayoLeary 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You misunderstood me. I was talking about oil from the other gulf states. About 25 percent of the global oil supply goes through the straight of Hormuz. If iran were to disrupt that it would be disastrous for obvious reasons. It's logical for the West to work to prevent that from being a possibility. Iran/persia is far older then 300 years old. But again you somehow missed the point. I was talking about the current 40 year old regime, which while not having directly started any wars, have since the beginning declared their intentions to do so against America and Israel. Really you are being deliberately obtuse. | | |
| ▲ | 34679 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | >I was talking about the current 40 year old regime Oh, and how did it come to power? |
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