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lysace 21 hours ago

Still using VSCode, but you kind of know that's it's going to go sour eventually. It is Microsoft. :/

I figure e.g. emacs will always be there when that happens.

All I need is a Github Copilot clone and a good code search feature.

Oh and automatic reloads of open but unchanged buffers when switching between git branches.

Oh and the ssh remote extension.

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kstrauser 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> All I need is a Github Copilot clone

I'm using https://github.com/copilot-emacs/copilot.el

> good code search feature.

project-find-regexp is a nice start.

> Oh and automatic reloads of open but unchanged buffers when switching between git branches.

(global-auto-revert-mode t)

> Oh and the ssh remote extension.

I haven't compared it to Tramp.

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bryanlarsen 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> All I need is a Github Copilot clone

or you could just use copilot through copilot.el

> and a good code search feature.

Like through helm or ivy?

> Oh and automatic reloads of open but unchanged buffers when switching between git branches.

My emacs does that, and I don't think I did anything special to get it.

> Oh and the ssh remote extension.

like tramp?

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pjmlp 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Many of us are perfectly fine with commercial software, we have been into the other side and got tired of the religion.

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mschild 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I think a lot of people don't have a problem with commercial software, but rather with the disingenuous behavior that some companies display.

VSCode was/is often touted as open source and Microsoft are using it to present themselves as community loving until MS sees an opportunity to extract some money/hinder the competition.

In comparison, Jetbrains is transparent with their offerings and what you get. There is in my opinion a clear difference in how they operate and how they are perceived.

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pjmlp 11 hours ago | parent [-]

You mean transparent like the way they added AI to their products?

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mschild 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm unaware of how they added it. Was there controversy around it?

	▲	pjmlp 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Yes, initially it was a pain to disable, a big no-no for many customers. https://devclass.com/2024/03/11/jetbrains-bows-to-user-press...

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znpy 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Emacs user here, have used vscode in the past.

Yep, vscode is more intuitive.

However emacs is mostly the kind of thing you dedicate a couple of months of discomfort and enjoy for the rest of your life. Quite literally.

Spending some money on the “mastering emacs” book (https://www.masteringemacs.org/) is worth imho.

Bonus point: little by little you start enjoying doing more stuff in emacs. It’s a meme, but it’s true.

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kstrauser 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I second all this. I'm using Zed today, but I was using Emacs for 20 years, then Sublime/VSCode/etc. for a few, and now Zed. If it disappears, I'm going right back to Emacs without a moment's hesitation.

And "Mastering Emacs" is brilliant.

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rurban 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And with copilot.el you get access to all models, not just some. I'm using Claude

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pjmlp 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I dedicated my time between 1995 and 2005 as my main UNIX editor, and don't miss installing Emacs.

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kstrauser 13 hours ago | parent [-]

It’s gotten way more ergonomic, BTW. Even if you treat it as a toolkit to build your own editor, the building blocks are much nicer than they were back then.

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pjmlp 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Thing is, I don't want to build my editor, I want to live the dream of Xerox PARC workstations, and that is what IDEs are for.

I had to make Emacs my go to editor in UNIX, because in those days there were hardly any alternatives, IDEs only started to be taken seriously on UNIX around 2000.

Even James Gosling, one of influencial people in the Emacs history says its time is now passed and he rather use Netbeans,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv5Q39MuTvk

	▲	DonHopkins 10 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Speaking of old obsolete versions of Gosling Emacs, Lars Brinkhoff just posted this source code for UniPress Emacs 2.20 he got from from Hans Hübner! That's the version we called NeMACS, with support for NeWS (Gosling's PostScript based window system), tabbed windows and pie menus, etc: https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/emacs-history/tree/sources/... So the answer to DVRC's ("Adopter of orphaned technologies") question on June 3, 2023, is yes, finally! HCIL Demo - HyperTIES Authoring with UniPress Emacs on NeWS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36166642 DonHopkins on June 2, 2023 \| parent \| context \| favorite \| on: Brave Browser introduces vertical tabs UniPress Emacs for NeWS in 1988: Scriptable GUI, tabbed windows, pie menus, hypermedia authoring tool for HyperTIES browser. Emacs served as an IDE with tabbed window and pie menus, for interactively editing, viewing, and navigating HyperTIES markup language documents, graphics, and interactive PostScript "applets". HyperTIES browser and Gosling Emacs authoring tool with pie menus on the NeWS window system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#/media/File:Hy... >HyperTIES is an early hypermedia browser developed under the direction of Dr. Ben Shneiderman at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. This screen snapshot shows the HyperTIES authoring tool (built with UniPress's Gosling Emacs text editor, written in MockLisp) and browser (built with the NeWS window system, written in PostScript, C and Forth). The tabbed windows and pie menu reusable components were developed by Don Hopkins, who also developed the NeWS Emacs (NeMACS) and HyperTIES user interfaces. (Sorry about the quality -- this is a scan of an old screen dump printed by a laser printer.) Emacs provides the pie menus you see popped up in the illustration (Articulate, Edit, New (Storyboard, Link, Picture, Target), Define) that control the HyperTIES browser from the custom text editing mode of HyperTIES storyboards (like web pages), which the HyperTIES browser (in the background, which emacs controls in a sub-process) formats and displays. HyperTIES also uses pie menus for navigation and in interactive "applets" programmed in PostScript. DVRC on June 3, 2023 [–] Do any version of UniPress Emacs (that support the NeWS driver) or NeMacs survive? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31989423 I wrote the following description of how NeWS relates to modern web browsers and "AJAX" in the NeWS article on Wikipedia, and I also worked on TNT (The NeWS Toolkit) at Sun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS >NeWS was architecturally similar to what is now called AJAX, except that NeWS coherently: >- used PostScript code instead of JavaScript for programming. >- used PostScript graphics instead of DHTML and CSS for rendering. >- used PostScript data instead of XML and JSON for data representation. [...] HyperTIES Emacs Authoring Tool MockLisp code (Yet Another HyperTIES Implementation, This Time In Emacs): http://donhopkins.com/home/ties/yahtittie.ml https://donhopkins.com/home/ties/ HyperTIES Discussions from Hacker News: https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hac...

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cess11 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm something of a vim fanatic because Emacs was sluggish, but these days have to admit that the multicore support turned out fine and the difference isn't that big anymore.

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znpy 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Uh, not only that. I recently updated from emacs 29 to emacs 30 where native compilation is enabled by default and it’s much much faster. Like, noticeably faster.

	▲	cess11 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Ah, nice. Definitely time for me to carve out a few hours and try it out again, then. Who knows, maybe I'll have closed the circle in a year and gone back to Emacs full time, where I started off in the editor wars a quarter of a century ago.

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lysace 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I spent 25 years using emacs before vscode (1997 to 2022-ish). I didn't go deep, I mostly just enjoyed the core parts of emacs + ccmode. I don't enjoy LISP but I still enjoy emacs, if that makes any sense.

MS made some very real and very usable innovations. Emacs hackers/maintainers would be wise to copy them, like I'm sure Microsoft copied things from emacs.

It's a bit like the UI aspect of the browser wars. Everyone wins when good things are cloned and then iteratively improved upon.

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datadrivenangel 20 hours ago | parent [-]

What are the ways that VScode is better than Emacs?

	▲	baq 14 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		vscode does three things extremely well: defaults, defaults and defaults. The most important ‘you just need M-x do-whatever after installing the whatever-doer package’ is supported out of the box (no details on purpose, try running emacs or vim without any config and compare to a clean fresh install of vscode).
	▲	lysace 20 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I listed my favorites above. Generalizing it: Having smart people who really understand UX helps a lot with minimizing those months of pain before the payoff.

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dharmab 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're almost describing Zed to a T.

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baq 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

vscode find in files is literally ripgrep FYI.

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globular-toast 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Warning, though: the older you get, the harder it will be to learn emacs. The best time to learn it is yesterday. The second best is today.