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The word "transvestite" predates the Nazis by a few decades, coined by someone the Nazis hated because he was gay and Jewish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Hirschfeld

> trans women on HRT develop breasts without surgery).

Transgender people go both directions, not only AMAB but also AFAB.

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aisenik 3 days ago | parent [-]

I did intend to type "Nazi era", though I find the clarification is meaningless to the point. I'm all for reclaiming words, but I am unaware of any significant efforts to reclaim and promote the word in question. It is anachronistic and inextricably connected to 20th century transphobia and violence against trans women in particular

Re: your second point, a closer reading of the comments will show that this thread is discussing "women."

e: The far more interesting discussion is whether the revival of eugenics-era language is justifiable. This is hardly the first example on this site of arrogant commentators casually reviving language that came to be understood as hateful in the 20th century.

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ben_w 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

> I am unaware of any significant efforts to reclaim and promote the word in question. It is anachronistic and inextricably connected to 20th century transphobia and violence against trans women in particular

It's the primary term I grew up with in the UK specifically about what is also called cross-dressing.

It's also used by one of my favourite comedians, Suzy Eddie Izzard, as self-description ("executive transvestite") before she identified as transgender: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress_to_Kill_(Eddie_Izzard)

> Re: your second point, a closer reading of the comments will show that this thread is discussing "women."

1) Quite a lot of transphobes focus entirely on women, thus ignoring how their own rules end up forcing trans men to end up in women's-only spaces.

2) I am informed that many trans women have implants before hormones. In fact, one woman I know openly discussed face surgery as part of her transition.

Also: cis women have breast surgery. I'm told most often as a reduction. Facebook, in its complete uselessness, has advertised the surgery to me along with dick pills.

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aisenik 3 days ago | parent [-]

It's bizarre that you try to talk down about trans issues that you are not informed about and label your interlocutor, a trans woman, as transphobic for not highlighting trans men when talking specifically about women.

If the answer to why you use the word "transvestite" is "I am steeped in 90s celebrity and watched RHPS" fine, but your disingenuous accusations of transphobia and extreme interest in a topic you seem exceptionally ignorant about fit a corrosive pattern that attempts to shutdown meaningful discussion. The rise of eugenics-era language is deeply concerning and I would actually like to better understand why this site in particular has seen an increase of commentary using regressive 20th century language.

	▲	ben_w 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		I am very confused by your response. I listed a bunch of different common definitions of "what is a woman" and showed that all of them have flaws. It's the idea of "common sense language" that I'm opposing here, because the reality is much more interesting than such simple definitions. I am also not labelling you transphobic at all. It was quite obvious that you are not, even before you stated you are a trans woman. Fun fact: myself, gender fluid. (Huh, first time I've said that in a pubic forum with my name on it…) When I wrote: > Quite a lot of transphobes focus entirely on women, thus ignoring how their own rules end up forcing trans men to end up in women's-only spaces. This sentence is not about you. It's a much more general observation, noting what is wrong with the public discourse, specifically that transphobes insist on certain definitions which end up with outcomes that they themselves are dissatisfied with. > RHPS While I also watched the Rocky Horror Picture Show in my teens (late 90s), that film (1975) predates me by so much, I wasn't sure if they used "transvestite" to mean "cross dressing" or "transgender". Where I first used the word "transvestite" to your objection, I meant specifically what is also called "cross dressing", because I was talking about outward appearance in public, and clothes are the outward appearance in public. That and hair, I guess. My hair is long enough I've had at least one straight guy get half way through a wolf-whistle before noticing a beard. At least, I assume they were straight, given the appearance of a beard was simultaneous with them stopping.

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computerthings 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

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