Remix clone Hacker News

What tests with what results would conclusively show which individuals went down which pathway?

jl6 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Depends why you need to know and with what level of accuracy. Just looking at their face is about 96%-98% accurate[0], and becomes even more accurate when other cues are available such as voice, gait, and build. For casual purposes, humans are incredibly good at predicting sex, without any technology or scientific understanding. One might speculate that being able to accurately find a mate is an evolutionary advantage.

For the last few fractions of a percent accuracy, a SRY cheek swab test is a simple non-invasive screening test that can flag individuals for further investigation. World Athletics have just implemented this test, stating it is “a highly accurate proxy for biological sex”.[1] A positive result in this screening test could be combined with a finger prick test for testosterone level to provide further information, and at this point we’re into methods of medical diagnosis of DSDs. About 1 in 5000 individuals will have a DSD, some of which are still unambiguously male or female (e.g. XXY Klinefelter syndrome), and some of which are almost unique individuals that defy categorization.

At this point, it is popular to seize on those rare individuals and declare “aha! So sex isn’t binary then! So it must be a spectrum!”, and while this is surely well-intentioned, it is scientifically illiterate.[2] I suspect part of the confusion is interpreting “binary” as a mathematical Boolean value (where exceptions cannot, by definition, exist) rather than as a scientific classification, where exceptions can and do exist and “prove the rule”.

[0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004269892...

[1] https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/articles/cj91dr17d1no.am...

[2] https://richarddawkins.com/articles/article/race-is-a-spectr...

▲

bryan_w 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

The question was:

>What tests with what results would conclusively show which individuals went down which pathway?

You've managed to provide 0 tests that conclusively answer the question.

▲

jl6 2 days ago | parent [-]

If your target level of accuracy is 100%, there is probably no medical test that can show anything.

Did you know there is no conclusive test for Alzheimer’s, IBS, migraines, and dozens more physical conditions, nor for any psychiatric condition? Do you think these aren’t real, or that they cannot be discerned to a useful degree of accuracy?

▲

bryan_w 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Well that's why when the law is concerned, it usually defers identification to a trained professional (e.g. as determined by a doctor ).

Besides that, there are things you can determine with certainty: The presence of a substance in blood for example

	▲	jl6 a day ago \| parent [-]
		A physical examination by a doctor, possibly augmented by imaging, is an excellent way to determine sex if previous observations and tests have been ambiguous. This is rarely a great difficulty, but when it is, it's how DSDs get diagnosed.

▲

tomlockwood a day ago | parent | prev [-]

So which tests with which results would you rely on?

▲

jl6 a day ago | parent [-]

Which bit are you having difficulty understanding? Make trivial observations if you want moderate accuracy (~99%), use a cheek swab or genetic test if you want greater accuracy, consult a doctor if you are still unsure.

	▲	tomlockwood 17 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Which part of my question are you having difficulty understanding? If this is so important and accurate surely you can name and explain the important and accurate tests, and their results. Maybe it isn't as simple as you say?

▲

tomlockwood 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

So the SRY cheek swab test that the IOC ruled ineffective before the 2000 Olympics is what you think is accurate? Interesting.

▲

jl6 3 days ago | parent [-]

It is a screening test, not a diagnostic test. False positives are possible, but so are followup tests for those cases.

	▲	tomlockwood 3 days ago \| parent [-]
		I guess it doesn't answer my question then.

▲

googlryas 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Why do you suppose such a test could even exist?