It's not really hard to have a default coffee type + size and serve that when the client asks for a coffee with no specifications. I wonder why no fancy coffee place does that. I guess it has to do with that hostile strain of sales tactics where they screw with your instincts and blind spots to sell you things you don't really want. I'm growing more and more intolerant with that kind of tactics, because they're everywhere and you need to actively fight with them to avoid your money being essentially scammed out of your wallet. I wonder if there's something one can do to screw with them back.

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noirbot 8 months ago | parent [-]

Most fancy coffee shops do do that though. If you walk in and ask for a drip coffee or an espresso, especially if you just say "I want a basic espresso", you'll probably get what you want. I'm sure there's some places that would be annoying about it, but most specialty places deal with plenty of people coming in every day not used to ordering in specialty places.

If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find, why would you go to a fancy shop? If anything, it's more likely to work there than going to a multi-course restaurant and trying to order a hamburger. There are other businesses that serve a "no choices" need.

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curtisblaine 8 months ago | parent [-]

Unfortunately that's not my experience. The places I've been just point you to the menu, which normally is quite complex and with many choices.

> If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find

Doesn't have to be cheap, it has to be plain. Just the coffee that, in average, the average disinterested client would like. We had a similar concept - now almost disappeared - with wine. The wine of the house was an average non-fancy wine that you could drink with your dinner without spending time deciphering the wine list.

> If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you can find, why would you go to a fancy shop?

Because cities are migrating en masse to fancy shops. Selling lifestyle is apparently more profitable & glamorous, so everyone wants to be the fancy shop rather than the humble bar.

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noirbot 8 months ago | parent | next [-]

But "plain" isn't a thing. There is no "plain" coffee. There's what Nestle and other old companies bought from near slave labor in various countries over the years and blended into what people expect now, but even those beans independently often taste better and different if made properly with modern technique and even basic equipment.

People are used to the specific flavor that, for instance, commercial Bunn coffee makers that haven't been properly cleaned for decades tastes like. There's not really any way to emulate that outside of intentionally buying bad equipment.

I'm still honestly confused that people have a hard time with the menu. I literally seek out going to the best and most fancy-ass coffee shops in the world when I travel and most of them will still serve you a normal Americano or Espresso if you order it. Some don't have drip/carafe coffee because that requires specific equipment and I could see that being complex, I guess, but then that's because you went to a especially high end coffee shop. I often have to go out of my way to find a shop that does pour-over. A lot of the world doesn't do drip or pour-over at all until recent times. Ten years ago, I had to go to the British expat bar in Prague to get a drip coffee because every other shop in town was espresso only and looked at you weird if you wanted an americano.

The options even then aren't usually all that complex unless you're into espresso, and then you should be used to ordering a latte/cappuccino/double shot if that's what you want. Your "black coffee" options are almost never more complex than various origins of drip coffee, where if you literally do not care, you can just order the cheapest. I'm perplexed by people who look at a menu of 4 options for drip coffee and seemingly have a mental breakdown due to complexity. The most number of drip/pour over options I've ever seen at a coffee shop was 8 and it was at the central roastery of one of the best coffee roasters in the world.

You can still buy coffee at McDonalds or 7-11 or plenty of other basic places! It's not like that was outlawed!

	▲	curtisblaine 8 months ago \| parent [-]
		> But "plain" isn't a thing. There is no "plain" coffee. In Italy, when you ask for an espresso without any other specifications they just give you a default coffee made from pre-chosen beans. It's not so hard to do, is it? Instead they don't do that because it's hard to justify a $10 cup of coffee without selling you a "lifestyle", whatever it means.

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elijaht 8 months ago | parent | prev [-]

I have never once gone to a coffee shop where ordering a “medium black drip coffee” has required any follow up or additional choices (beyond occasionally needing to describe the size in ounces), and I go to all variety of coffee shops with my partner