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I'm a huge Thinkpad fan. I'm an even bigger MacBook fan.

None of my MacBook Pros ever had any issues, and I used my last MacBook for 9 years. I could keep using it with Linux instead of MacOS, but I think almost a decade of use is plenty of value for me.

There were recalls and scandals with the MacBook Pro over the years, but nothing that other vendors also didn't see, and that wouldn't have required the same exact parts being replaced. I'm thinking of the GPU issues with certain MacBooks. The difference is Apple is usually able to be held to task to fix issues, while almost any other vendor did not care to stand behind their product, including Lenovo.

I had a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon with the HiDPI screen that was absolutely awful, requiring replacement multiple times. Each time, the moron from Unisys that Lenovo sent to do the on-site repair would return me with a laptop that was poorly reassembled, and with new problems due to the tech's ineptitude. The same dude did service for Lenovo servers, and he once dropped a server that needed a fan replaced on the floor. Talk about fragile.

Thinkpads are great, and the oldest ones are still solid to use, but to say that MacBooks are fragile ignores that Thinkpads too are fragile.

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dahauns 15 days ago | parent [-]

>The difference is Apple is usually able to be held to task to fix issues, while almost any other vendor did not care to stand behind their product, including Lenovo.

Sorry, but this is a joke. "any other vendor did not care to stand behind their product"? Give me a break.

Apple has been time and again the champion of denying issues with their products until lawsuits forced their hand, often settling without admitting wrongdoing. Bendgate, Batterygate, MBP nVidia, MBP AMD, Butterfly keyboard, just off the top of my head. (Again: My criticism here is about how Apple handled them.)

"You're holding it wrong" is a meme for a reason (that didn't result in a lawsuit, though IIRC)

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op00to 15 days ago | parent [-]

Every hardware vendor has problems. Suggesting that Apple is uniquely bad while others “stand behind their products” doesn’t hold up. The difference is that Apple, after enough pressure, actually fixes things. They create repair programs, offer recalls, and have the infrastructure to make things right. Most vendors don’t. Let’s look at the examples you listed.

Butterfly keyboard

Yes, a bad design. But Apple launched a repair program that covered every affected MacBook for multiple years. I was affected by this, and had my keyboard replaced twice. Compare that to Lenovo’s ThinkPad coil whine and sleep bugs, which they never publicly acknowledged and never fixed. Users were told it was “within spec.”

Batterygate

Apple throttled devices to preserve battery life and didn’t communicate it well. After the backlash, they launched a battery replacement program and settled a class-action lawsuit. HP had massive issues with failing batteries and Nvidia GPUs no meaningful recall, just silence.

MBP GPU failures

Apple ran logic board replacement programs for both sets of failures. They repaired machines years out of warranty. Microsoft, on the other hand, ignored Surface Pro 4 screen flickering for over two years, then limited their replacement program to a narrow window, leaving many customers stuck.

Bendgate

Apple initially downplayed it, but the iPhone 6 Plus was later included in a touchscreen repair program. Compare that to Asus ROG Zephyrus early models that ran hot, warped, and suffered fan noise issues. Users got nothing but “working as intended” responses.

“You’re holding it wrong”

A tone-deaf response. But they gave out free bumper cases to all iPhone 4 customers, no strings attached. Dell’s XPS 15, meanwhile, had persistent audio latency and trackpad issues over multiple generations, and they never rolled out a formal fix or support campaign.

Apple has problems, yes. But they also have stores, trained techs, and formal programs that actually address the issues. The service experience isn’t perfect, but it exists. With most other vendors, you’re stuck mailing your device to a third-party contractor who might show up late and leave you worse off.

Apple doesn’t get a free pass. But pretending they’re worse than companies who ghost their customers when things go wrong doesn’t line up with reality.

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dahauns 15 days ago | parent [-]

>Every hardware vendor has problems.

Yeah, and I explicitly stated that this isn't what I was criticizing.

>The difference is that Apple, after enough pressure, actually fixes things. They create repair programs, offer recalls, and have the infrastructure to make things right. Most vendors don’t.

Which simply is bullshit.

I don't know why you feel the need for a play-by-play - I know, I was affected by several of them. And every single one of them was Apple reacting only after prolonged active denial and deflection culminating in lawsuits. There's nothing to defend here. That's shitty service.

Kinda sad that that you feel the need to bring random other issues into the mix (Coil Whine, really? LOL, remember the MBP "Moo"?) coupled with outright lies (of course HP issued recall programs - for both the NVidia GPUs and the batteries).

>The service experience isn’t perfect, but it exists. With most other vendors, you’re stuck mailing your device to a third-party contractor who might show up late and leave you worse off.

No, with serious vendors, you're not. It seems you've never experienced real business on-site service. (And yes, it was still cheaper than AppleCare.) Compare that to wondering with every visit at the service center whether your problem will even be acknowledged as such or you're gonna be gaslit. (And I'm speaking from experience.)

> But pretending they’re worse than companies who ghost their customers when things go wrong doesn’t line up with reality.

Neither does pretending that's all that exists (or even being close to the norm with high-end gear).

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op00to 15 days ago | parent [-]

You’re leaning hard on a No True Scotsman argument here. “With serious vendors, you’re not” is doing a lot of hand-waving to ignore how inconsistent support actually is across the industry. Just because you had a good on-site experience doesn’t mean it’s universally better.

In my case, I had a ThinkPad X1 Carbon with a new, whiz-bang 4k screen that needed warranty service due to a faulty panel. Lenovo sent out a Unisys contractor who botched the repair—cracked the screen bezel, and somehow left the machine unable to boot. Lenovo sent the same guy back, and each visit made things worse. This happened multiple times, and the machine had to be fully replaced more than once because the repairs kept introducing new problems. This same tech also dropped a Lenovo server during a fan swap at a different site. So yeah, I’ve experienced “real” onsite business service, and it was an absolute mess more often than not.

Every vendor has issues. That’s not the point. The difference is that Apple actually rolls out repair programs and has the infrastructure to fix things in a relatively consistent way. You can take a broken machine to a store, talk to someone who can usually solve your problem, and almost always walk out with a solution. Pretending other vendors are more accountable just doesn’t match reality. They’re not immune to problems. They’re just a lot better at quietly ignoring them.

	▲	dahauns 14 days ago \| parent [-]
		And you are leaning hard into a combo of anecdata and sweeping generalization. I could recite lots of personal accounts of perfect service from Lenovo/HP/HPE business service (Mainly X/T-Series at Lenovo, Elitebooks/Z Workstations at HP, Proliants and general server/networking infrastructure at HP and later HPE) and terrible "business" service from Apple. Then what? >The difference is that Apple actually rolls out repair programs and has the infrastructure to fix things in a relatively consistent way. You can take a broken machine to a store, talk to someone who can usually solve your problem, and almost always walk out with a solution. And that's an idealized version not consistent with reality. "This is not an issue on our side" (very much related to my examples) is not a solution. Hell, in enough contexts "Bring in your device, we'll look at it, maybe repair it and you can collect it sometime later" isn't either (and for the longest time Apple didn't offer anything else - oh, and BTW: at least here in Austria, Apple Care Enterprise on-site is very much done via subcontractor...). >Pretending other vendors are more accountable just doesn’t match reality. They’re not immune to problems. They’re just a lot better at quietly ignoring them. Neither is this. Again: repair programs/recalls and associated infrastructure aren't exclusive to apple, they are expected standard in business service. And begrudgingly doing those recalls after (or shortly before) a judge orders you to isn't the high standard you seem to make it out to be. Too bad you had an issue with your on-site technician - but honestly I don't understand why you allowed them to repeatedly send him back after that mess...