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slg 7 hours ago

> American companies have been doing the job for them.

This right here is the answer. People just don’t care about this type of privacy because they assume some American company already has their data. Combine that with us being two generations removed from the Cold War and the average TikTok user doesn’t see any reason why the owner of this specific data being Chinese matters and frankly I’m sympathetic to that argument. If you live in the US, someone like Musk is going to have a greater influence on your life than the Chinese government and I see no reason to trust him any more or less than the Chinese government. So any discussion of this being a matter of national security just rings hollow.

antasvara 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I worry less about the data and more about how a lot of kids, teens, and young adults get their news from TikTok (and social media in general).

That's the real value of TikTok. Having the eyeballs of young people and being able to (subtly or not) influence their perception of the world is valuable in a way that massive amounts of data aren't.

I do also worry about this with Musk, but I also acknowledge that taking away social media ownership from a foreign company is different than taking it away from a US company.

ramblenode 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I worry less about the data and more about how a lot of kids, teens, and young adults get their news from TikTok (and social media in general).

Fox News* is America's most watched television news source. Is this the kind of alternative you are envisioning?

*Also owned by a foreign national

defrost 4 hours ago | parent [-]

If you're under 40 years of age Fox is "owned" by a US national who's been a citizen longer than you've been alive.

slg 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I just find this line of argument incredibly ironic because it is fundamentally an anti-free speech argument in defense of both the US and Musk while making the defense of the Chinese app with strong censorship a pro-free speech position. That doesn’t necessarily make the argument invalid, but it certainly makes it feel a little disingenuous to the general public.

insane_dreamer 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

IMO the same argument holds for both Musk/X and the CCP/TikTok: social media networks upon which the US public has become heavily dependent, should not be under the absolute control of some unaccountable person/entity with a strong personal agenda -- this applies to both Musk and the CCP.

If there was a way to force Musk to sell X or ban it, I would support that 100%. But that's unlikely to ever happen especially now with co-President Musk. But in the meantime, either breaking TT free of CCP control, or banning it, would be at least one battle won.

closeparen 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Perhaps the privacy and free speech absolutism that prevail among hacker forum commenters are not the values to run a civilization by.

IgorPartola 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I am a fairly active consumer of TikTok content. It's a huge app with many many different niches that have their own little communities. Mostly, the algorithm has decided that what I need to see is woodworking videos, car videos, and some dad jokes. But there certainly is a very interesting undercurrent of "information". One really interesting wave was when the TikTok ban passed Congress. Suddenly my feed was filled with absolutely random people saying how bad this is and how it just doesn't make sense, etc. Like if you are an influencer on a platform that just got banned, of course you'll have some feelings about it. But interestingly most people who do regularly show up (the woodworkers, car guys, etc.) who do have big followings pretty much didn't talk about it. Even this week when the ban is about to happen, the popular and established accounts that aren't politics-focused are not talking about it. But now there is a new wave of completely random people talking about "how much is the US government freaking out that we are all moving to Red Note?" And at this point I don't trust that all of them are actual humans, let alone humans who haven't been paid, or if they are AI-generated personas meant to really overtly drive people like me to the new app.

My point isn't that there is some grand conspiracy here, just that if you wanted to have outsized influence on people who are there just for entertainment, you could do it and make it look organic. Inception has to be the target's idea and all that.

In a similar vein I see talking heads of people in their kitchens contemplate world issues. Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Palestine, life in China: you can get in-depth opinions on all those issues from a hairdresser in Nebraska or a mechanic in Michigan, and they all will present them well enough. So I think there is something there.

But the clear damn solution is to pass laws that prohibit a bunch of this stuff across the board. The fact that Instagram Reels can do exactly what TikTok is doing but with ties to a different world power makes this ban seem shameless. Ban them all. Or none. Or regulate them like they should be regulated. But don't pretend like this security theater is somehow going to fix anything meaningful.

boredtofears 6 hours ago | parent [-]

A sibling of mine who gets a significant portion of their income through their Tiktok following confessed to me recently that they completely understand why they are shutting it down.

Apparently influencers get a lot of unsolicited pressure to take stances on things like Palestine even if they're just a crafting influencer.

IgorPartola 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Unsolicited pressure from whom and what form does it take?

boredtofears 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Other accounts on the app. Mostly comments from my understanding.

slg 5 hours ago | parent [-]

i.e. peer pressure that exists absolutely everywhere and is in no way exclusive to TikTok.

boredtofears 4 hours ago | parent [-]

They don’t get this kind of pressure on YouTube or IG.

slg 4 hours ago | parent [-]

So what are you actually claiming here? Do you think these comments are coming from fake accounts?

boredtofears 4 hours ago | parent [-]

There is an undercurrent of opinion on the platform that happens to align with Chinese worldviews that is strong enough to make politically neutral (or at least abstaining) influencers on the platform uncomfortable.

slg 4 hours ago | parent [-]

It really feels like you are repeatedly trying to imply something nefarious without actually making any accusations of nefarious behavior. All you have really said here is that some of the people who use the platform don't have the right opinion and therefore it is understandable to ban the app. That seems like an incredibly hypocritical argument to make in defense of the actions of the American government.

boredtofears 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure how you arrived at that interpretation of my comment but it does seem to be the one you were trying to goad out of me with your responses so you could reply with this.

slg 3 hours ago | parent [-]

>I'm not sure how you arrived at that interpretation of my comment but it does seem to be the one you were trying to goad out of me with your responses so you could reply with this.

What a weird comment. I goaded an interpretation out of you? I was just trying to get at why you seemingly think TikTok is different than any other social network and your response was that "There is an undercurrent of opinion on the platform that happens to align with Chinese worldviews". But I guess the bad faith alarm has already been triggered so not much point continuing from here.

insane_dreamer 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> If you live in the US, someone like Musk is going to have a greater influence on your life than the Chinese government and I see no reason to trust him any more or less than the Chinese government. So any discussion of this being a matter of national security just rings hollow.

Just because Musk is a f*ing problem for all Americans, doesn't mean that the CCP isn't a problem. Not much you can do about "President" Musk -- so you have to work with what you can control.