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throwawayq3423 8 hours ago

> Will we see internationalized Chinese content dominating it?

This is a weird fantasy, but it brings up an interesting point. The complete lack of Chinese influence on global pop culture. Especially when compared to Japan or Korea, countries with a fraction of the population but many, many times the influence.

I wish the CCP didn't wall off their citizens from the rest of the world in the name of protecting their own power. Think of the creativity we are all losing out on.

parsimo2010 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The complete lack of Chinese influence on global pop culture

The CCP has tried to get their culture out there, it just has not been successful at the visually obvious scale of Japan or Korea. But their culture is definitely getting out there, and I think we often don't spot the Chinese influence on something unless some journalist finds out and writes an article about it.

Some of their influence is leveraged in business deals, with several movies being altered by the demand of the CCP, and these changes persisting in worldwide releases, not just the Chinese-released version of the movies.

Some of their influence is leveraged in video games- Genshin Impact is a famously successful Chinese game. There are some competitive Chinese teams in various pockets of e-sports too. Tencent also owns several video game developers, and occasionally uses their influence to change parts of a game to please the CCP.

There is a Chinese animation industry (print and video), and occasionally they get a worldwide success. I remember being surprised when I found out that "The Daily Life of the Immortal King" was Chinese- you can tell it isn't Japanese but lots of people guess that it is Korean.

proudeu 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I became so interested in ancient Chinese mythology after playing black myth wukong. Also my cousin is watching cDramas all the time and she intends to marry Chinese guy… So I think the soft power is there already, whether we like it or not. but I think it’s good to have competing content instead of being fed whatever powers that be think is good fur us

throwawayq3423 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I heard that game is great! This discussion reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCCRuUlJ_nA

It basically asks "Why can't China make a movie like this?" Kung Fu Panda was a love letter to Chinese culture, and it connected with people worldwide.

I think it comes down to government censorship. Art is expression and unapproved expression is seen as a threat to a dictatorship.

It makes me sad to think of all the Chinese art we have missed out on because of the insecurity of a government.

throwawayq3423 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Government can't create culture and art anymore than a tech company can. They can only allow it to grow and spread, or block it.

throwthrowrow 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Mostly true but the exception is K-Pop, which as I understand was the creation of a project by the South eKorean government. There was a severe financial crisis in the late 1990s where the country almost went bankrupt. Desperately seeking sources of revenue, the government funded K-Pop groups which eventually become a global phenomenon (BTS et al). At least that is what some Koreans have told me.

throwawayq3423 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Funding is one thing, but they didn't create any of it. The people did. A small but important distinction imho.

sungho_ an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I am Korean, and what you are saying is a lie created by anti-Korean people in Japan. Do you really think it makes sense for a government experiencing an economic crisis to desperately seek revenue sources and hope to overcome the crisis by funding a cultural industry that hasn't even succeeded yet?

djtango 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

I've always wondered about this, turns out there's a wikipedia entry for it

> To protect the South Korean culture industry, the South Korean Ministry of Culture received a substantial budget increase, allowing for the creation of hundreds of culture industry departments in universities nationwide.[21] It has justified its financial support for Hallyu, estimated to be worth US$83.2 billion in 2012, by linking it to South Korea's export-driven economy.[22]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Wave

djtango 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As someone who wants to learn Chinese, I think about it all the time. Watching Chinese shows just isn't as fun for whatever reason. I was telling my wife the other day I have met so many people who credit Friends for why they can speak English.

That's soft power right there.

I've had to resort to watching anime on Netflix with Chinese dubs - anime is good because people actually talk slower and usually use simple language. When I watched Three Body (Chinese version) the dialogue was impenetrable lol

wordofx 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Taiwanese shows are better if you want to learn Chinese. They speak clearly and don’t speak fast like China shows.

djtango 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

Thanks I'll take a look. It will be funny if I end up with a Taiwanese accent around my Dongbei in laws but I've spent enough time in china to remember the mainland accent tbh

BlueTemplar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Friends is great, but still pretty advanced as English learning goes, with fast speech, and lots of slang and US/90s specific references.

djtango 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

I guess so but it also has slower lines too especially for comedic delivery. The cultural references are good (now dated because Friends is 20-30 years old) because after learning a language, cultural references are next when it comes to fully being able to converse

glenstein 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For better or worse, I think CCP has long been on the backfoot in international propaganda just because what passes for persuasive narratives in authoritarian contexts falls flat to global audiences fluent in western entertainment and media culture.

Of course they have modernized, but most actual influence obtained thus fair (e.g. international olympic committees covering up investigations, stopping the NBA from venturing criticisms) has come from projection of soft power rather than being on the cultural cutting edge.

swatcoder 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What do you mean by "global pop culture" here?

I've never considered there to be one, although I'm open to the idea.

It's easy for me to recognize an Ameican pop culture or an Anglo pop culture, and the favor each show for certain imports over others, but those don't seem nearly so universal as your usage of "global pop culture" suggests.

Latin, Arabic, Russian, Chinese, French, Indian/South Asian, etc each represent huge "pop culture" markets of their own but also each have their own import biases.

throwawayq3423 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> What do you mean by "global pop culture" here?

Encountering a Chinese song playing a cafe in Latin America. A popular movie with global appeal. Or even people being aware of cultural trends. I feel like culturally, China is a bit of a black box.

matthest 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As a Chinese American, this is the real reason people don't know about China.

To be honest, most of the movies/shows China creates sucks. They're Marvel-esque CGI fests with awful storylines.

Meanwhile, Japan and Korea are creating awesome media.

The whole narrative about the US gov trying to "hide" China isn't really true. There are a ton of viral videos on YouTube about how great China is. And we welcome Chinese immigrants every year.

The real problem is that China itself doesn't execute when it comes to soft power.

antifa 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> most of the movies/shows China creates sucks. They're Marvel-esque CGI fests with awful storylines.

since we're here, what are some of the least bad modern Sci-fi/Horror movies/TV shows from China?

throwawayq3423 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think this is one of the main reason Japan gets overwhelmed by tourists every year, their culture has so many fans.

elzbardico 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd say that in the last two years China has advanced quite a big step with video-games.

ec109685 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“Chinese movies” are popular in Vietnam for example, so not fair to say they have no global reach.

echoangle 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Those two share a border, how does that show global reach? I would be surprised if a country didn’t influence its neighbors in some ways.

throwawayq3423 3 hours ago | parent [-]

This is precisely what i'm talking about. A country of 1.4b with a film industry that gets billions in state subsidies and they best they can do is mild popularity of a few films on their physical borders.

Censorship is the enemy of art.

quickthrowman 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The only good Chinese language films were all filmed in Hong Kong, directed by people like Wong Kar-Wai. In the Mood for Love is widely considered one of the greatest films ever made.

Chinese cultural (and censor) sensibilities are why big budget US movies are almost universally boring and terrible these days. Authoritarian societies aren’t exactly known for creating good art.

petre 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

True that. My wife watched a few Chinese dramas, but they're quite boring compared to k-dramas or japanese shows. I find them annoying and full of propaganda. Only the historical ones are borderline interesting. Also the CCP crackdown on celebrities didn't help.

By contrast, there's now a very good k-drama with Lee Min-ho happening in space or the Gyeongseong Creature horror drama with Park Seo-joon.

I did see some good Chinese movies, mostly out of Hong Kong. Wong Kar-wai directed a bunch of good ones but they all predate Xi's regime and the takeover of HK.

One of my favourite contemporary artists is Ai Weiwei, who has gone missing in 2011 only to finally reappear four years later. I understand he now lives in Portugal. Got his book on my night stand, 1000 Years of Joys and Sorrows.

saturn8601 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you are a bit too premature: China has at least one(usually dozens) competitor for literally everything America has. You just don't hear about everything in the US.

Think of any industry and there is probably a Chinese competitor that is trying.

Tesla -> BYD

Google -> Baidu

Starbucks -> Luckin Coffee

IMAX -> China Film Giant Screen or maybe POLYMAX

Finally Disney -> Possibly Beijing Enlight Pictures

They released an animated film Ne Zha in 2019 that according to wikipedia was "the highest-grossing animated film in China,[16] the worldwide highest-grossing non-U.S. animated film,[17] and the second worldwide highest-grossing non-English-language film of all time at the time of its release. With a gross of over $725 million,[18] it was that year's fourth-highest-grossing animated film, and China's all time fourth-highest-grossing film.[19]"

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ne_Zha_(2019_film)

Some great info here [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2J0pRJSToU

Ok I'll admit part of the reason people don't hear about these companies is that they are still too half baked. But look at BYD, they started off producing junk but this Chinese mindset of grinding and rapid iteration has put them to be super successful today. Why couldn't that kind of happen with their Disney competitor?

Another thing that might be happening is the literal closing off of the world into two spheres. Western US led and Eastern Chinese led. As we are seeing with BYD, they are taking over all the non western markets(and some western as well) but the US has essentially slammed the door shut on them (they haven't actually but made it impossible to enter with their tariffs). Maybe the Disney competitor will take hold in the non western aligned world?

Honestly its a shame they are not open or democratic. The idea of watching or even being part of a rising country that is building their empire is fascinating to watch. Will they collapse due to demographics or these fundamental issues like communism or will they make it? Unfortunately for many people, the only option is to stick with the US and work to keep the ship afloat as there is no place for them in China.

edm0nd 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Chinese nation state hacking groups also literally break into American Fortune 500 companies and US aerospace/defense companies to steal R&D and tech to then use themselves + give to private Chinese industries. That sure does help them a ton when they dont have to do any research and can just steal and copy instead.

saturn8601 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Thats true...you can only go so far with that though and thats probably why many of their industries haven't really met the par yet.

But at the same time they have eclipsed the west in certain industries such as commercial nuclear. That mentality is there in their industries that havent met the par yet and that was a major point I was making in my previous comment.

As far as I understand, they originally licensed the AP1000 but expanded upon the design enough that they have ownership over the new design and they use that now.

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_China#Reactor...

We also see it in BYD. The Seagull is a symphony of cost efficiency and vertical integration that western companies are now studying.

[2]: https://youtu.be/izvdO-zdlKg?t=29

BlueTemplar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It might help, but the Soviet Union did something like that too, and look at what became of it.

datavirtue 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm resentful for not having BYD here to offer affordable vehicles. The vast numbers of people who are now boxed out of the middle class could desperately use the help of a vehicle that doesn't cost them $700 a month.

peoplefromibiza 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

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dv_dt 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or perhaps you haven't encountered Chinese content because of soft suppression of the content from within the US bubble

n144q 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Do you have any concrete examples of Chinese culture elements as popular as anime that is "supressed" in the US?

throwawayq3423 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I am also interested because I would love to explore it.

vaer-k an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Tiktok and communism are the first things that come to mind

matthest 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't buy this narrative, even as a Chinese American.

There are a ton of viral videos on YouTube about people travelling the most beautiful parts of China. Free for everyone to consume.

Chinese movies/shows just kind of suck, especially compared to the quality of Kdramas and anime.

momo_hn2025 an hour ago | parent [-]

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