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joshfee 11 hours ago

I think the easiest answer to follow for "why is this not prevented by free speech protection" is "the fact that petitioners “cannot avoid or mitigate” the effects of the Act by altering their speech." (page 10 of this ruling, but is a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Broadcasting_System,_In...)

insane_dreamer an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It's amazing to me how many people are derailed by the free speech argument.

This is about who controls the network, not the content on the network.

There is a law that only U.S. citizens can own TV stations. That's why Murdoch became a US citizen (allowing him to buy Fox). This is in a similar vein.

yobid20 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Simple answer. A chinese owned company has no such rights or protections. Free speech does not apply. The law also does not censor content (so no free speech violation anyway). The law simply bans the distribution of the app on marketplaces stores for reasons stated (national security). Big difference.

jmholla 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Simple answer. A chinese owned company has no such rights or protections. Free speech does not apply.

The Constitution does not place limits on which people are protected by it (you don't have to be a citizen for it to apply as the founders were looking to limit the powers of their government not their citizens). And with the expansion of those protections to corporations through Citizens United, I'd be surprised if a court found that `company + foreign != person + foreign` when they've decided `company == person`. (Well not surprised by this Court.)

> The law also does not censor content (so no free speech violation anyway). The law simply bans the distribution of the app on marketplaces stores for reasons stated (national security). Big difference.

The rest of your comment still stands right in my eyes. National Security has often been used as a means to bypass many things enshrined by the Constitution.

umanwizard 3 hours ago | parent [-]

The court has never determined that corporations are people, that’s a completely unfounded meme.

What they did find was that (real, human) people have certain rights that they are able to exercise by organizing into corporations.

iterance 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

Eh? Unless otherwise specified, corporations satisfy the definition of a person across all federal laws per 1 USC §1, which reads: "the words “person” and “whoever” include corporations, companies, associations, firms, partnerships, societies, and joint stock companies, as well as individuals"

That 1 USC §1 is not a typo: this copy appears in the first section of the first title of US code, on disambiguating common terms used in law.

concinds 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The EFF disagrees.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/01/eff-statement-us-supre...

airstrike 3 hours ago | parent [-]

The Supreme Court doesn't.

garbagewoman 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The supreme court says a lot of things.

airstrike 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

So does the EFF, but they have no say in legal matters, so their opinion here is irrelevant, whereas the Supreme Court's opinion is final.

Spivak 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Sure but even the supreme court disagrees with the supreme court. Treating their rulings as the best or canonical interpretation of a case doesn't make much sense.

It's not like any interpretation is valid but there are plenty of valid ones.

airstrike an hour ago | parent [-]

By definition, the Supreme Court's decision _is_ the canonical interpretation. Whether you disagree with the decision has no bearing on the matter.

And of course it makes sense, because the legal system was created by the very laws it upholds. If you think it should be different, then you'll have to convince a lot of people to change a lot of laws and probably parts of the US constitution

HDThoreaun an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

And what they say matters a whole lot more than what the eff says.

cute_boi an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Just because Supreme court said it doesn't mean they aren't heavily biased.

garbagewoman 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is affecting the free speech rights of US citizens directly. You might wish it was as simple as you try to portray it, but it clearly isn’t

soerxpso 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is not affecting US citizens' legal free speech rights. You have the right to say what you want; you don't have the right to say it on a specific platform. You had free speech without TikTok before it existed, and you'll have the same amount of free speech if it does not exist again.

Spivak 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This is exactly the simplistic framing the person you replied to is talking about. So let's take an absurd extreme. The government designates a 1x1 mile "free speech zone" in the middle of Wyoming and says you're not allowed to speak anywhere else. You have the same amount of free speech as you did before, right?

Another extreme, let's say the government declared that you may speak freely but only by filling out a web form routed to Dave. Great guy. I mean they haven't technically taken away your right to speak? And someone will hear what you say.

Both of these would he flagrant violations of 1A as I'm sure you'd agree. But what this means is that implicit to 1A the government has limits on how many places it can deny you speech and limits on how much they can deny you an audience. And you can't hide behind the "well it's just divestiture not a ban" because the courts aren't blind to POSIWID.

So the more nuanced question is does banning TikTok meaningfully affect the ability of Americans to speak. And I think because of how large they are you could answer yes to this question. Americans know exactly what they're signing up for with their TT accounts and want to post there. TikTok but owned by an American would be legal so the platform itself isn't the issue. And saying TT can't operate in the US and actively preventing Americans from accessing it are two very different actions.

dullcrisp 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Only in the same way that you not letting me into your living room affects my free speech inside of your living room, I think.

beej71 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> The law simply bans the distribution of the app on marketplaces stores for reasons stated (national security).

This is red alert talk. We need to make damned sure we know exactly what we're asking for here and that we're not giving up more than we mean to.

nilsbunger 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is a limitation on foreign control of TikTok, not a limitation on speech. TikTok can stay in the us market if it eliminates the foreign control

garbagewoman 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That’s very vague and theoretical

compootr 3 hours ago | parent [-]

is it? that's what TT's requirements look like

imgabe 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Congress is explicitly empowered in the Constitution to regulate foreign trade. Free speech is not relevant.

garbagewoman 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Free speech is relevant if issues of free speech are involved, which they are here.

imgabe 3 hours ago | parent [-]

There are no issues of speech. Nobody’s speech is restricted in any way. China simply isn’t allowed to sell a social media app in the US. This is just an import control like if we decided not to import lemons from Brazil or anything else.

What specific speech do you think is no longer allowed?

dcrazy 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Nobody’s speech is restricted in any way.

Justice Sotomayor disagrees with you [1]:

> Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote a brief opinion concurring in part and concurring in the judgment. She stressed that she saw “no reason to assume without deciding that the Act implicates the First Amendment because our precedent leaves no doubt that it does.”

The rest of the justices sidestepped the question by assuming the First Amendment was implicated for the sake of argument.

[1]: https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/01/supreme-court-upholds-tik...

imgabe an hour ago | parent [-]

They upheld the ban even if there were a First Amendment interest. That doesn’t mean that there is one, it means that if there were one it wouldn’t matter. They didn’t examine if the first amendment applied or not because it wouldn’t matter.

gnkyfrg 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

oooyay 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I really like reading these because they come with annotations: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-9-1/ALD...

Also, more directly for those in the back, the actual first amendment:

> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The first amendment doesn't guarantee the speaker a venue for their speech. You're still free to say whatever you want to say, so long as it doesn't cross any other laws, in or on whatever other private venues or town squares you so choose.

To turn your question around, rather than spending time defending TikTok I wish people would spend time thinking about the need for actual privacy laws. The kind of laws that outline data governance and the extents to which an individual can expect their individual privacy to be respected. Maybe then we can play less whack a mole with invasive and potentially harmful social software.

rjp0008 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Interesting that the reference linked is in reference to must-carry regulation. The tiktok scenario is the opposite though? Must-not-carry that content! I suppose Uncle Sam's sword cuts both ways.

curiousllama 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's a great point. Hadn't thought about that angle

lupire 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's not right.

Publishing is speech (Bernstein vs United States).

Unpublishing the app would avoid the effects of the Act.

nikanj 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The easier answer is ”This is really eating into Meta’s revenues”

roncesvalles 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sweet summer child, do you think TikTok would've been banned if it didn't come into focus as a hotbed for pro-Palestinian content?

"The issue in the United States for support of Israel is not left and right. It is young and old. And the numbers of young people who think that Hamas' massacre was justified is shockingly and terrifyingly odd. And so we really have a TikTok problem."

"[TikTok] is like Al Jazeera on steroids."

- Jonathan Gleenblat, ADL.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/1i3vwll/we_ha...

Something very appalling has just taken place in the USA. Old people have muzzled the free speech of young people. Americans spend more hours on TikTok than on television (but it mostly skews to young people), and now it's been taken away.

daedrdev 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

TikTok was specifically banned because of one main reason. When it was being discussed in congress, they told their users to complain to their congresspeople, and posted their congresspersons number. Then when a bunch of unhinged teens called threatening to kill themselves, congress members rightfully went "What the fuck" and the bill gained enormous support

lemon_zest an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You hit the nail in the head. US politicians openly admit as much. It is all about controlling the narrative. No sir, cannot have these young people think of Palestinians as human beings. [Blinken blames TikTok and social media for disrupting Israel’s narrative of war in Gaza]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

soerxpso 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If TikTok were sold to an American company, as the new law demands, why would that change anything about the amount of pro-Palestinian content? Just because the ADL said they don't like TikTok does not mean that's the motivation for the bill. You're still allowed to criticize Israel as much as you were a decade ago (which is to say, less than you're allowed to criticize the US, for some reason ;) but still).

roncesvalles 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Because a sale is and has always been impossible since it would be an unacceptable embarrassment for China in the current climate. The divestiture is just a way to make the ban pass muster.

daedrdev 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Thats a good reason why it's banned. China cannot sell. TikTok is under the strong control of their government, and so won't sell despite loosing an stupefying amount of revenue by doing so.

HDThoreaun an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Tik tok was banned because it tried to use children to start a political movement. Unfortunately for them children can not vote so the movement did nothing other than scare adults.