| ▲ | graeme 13 hours ago |
| Tiktok is actually surprisingly national in how it serves its content. If you're outside the US you don't see most American accounts except the ones that go very viral. Edit: I should clarify. This might mean most content you see is English, if you're interested in English content. However it matters where the video was geographically uploaded from. If you upload a tiktok video and check the stats you'll see most views are from your region or country. Tiktok shows videos locally, then regionally and then finally worldwide if yoo have a big hit. It would be interesting to know what fraction of the English content people see is posted geographically from within America. |
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| ▲ | MasterScrat 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This hasn't been my experience, using TikTok from Switzerland, I almost exclusively see English language, with a focus on my interests |
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| ▲ | pepinator 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Switzerland has just 8 million people, which are divided into two big language groups. And most people speak (or at least understand) English. So, it's natural for the algorithm to converge to content in English. | | |
| ▲ | epolanski 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Lived in Switzerland and this is really not true. What I've learned is that since Switzerland has 3 official languages (German, French and Italian) children and teens at school focus on learning one of the other two regions they are not from. In particular this leads to French and Italian cantons to be moderately fluent in each other's language. Strikingly when I lived in Lausanne, more people knew Italian than English. English was really not on their radar (plus, add that francophones are kind of elitist when it comes to languages and don't really like to consume content that is not in french). In German speaking Switzerland proficiency in English was still subpar from most of the rest of Europe when walking in a shop or going to a restaurant. | | |
| ▲ | smitty1110 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > What I've learned is that since Switzerland has 3 official languages Everyone always forgets Romansh... | |
| ▲ | secstate 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not to derail, but when I was in Switzerland, I found the German Swiss to be far more elitarian about NOT learning French, than the other way around. And French Swiss being a minority, they kinda got treated as other or less-than in the bulk of Switzerland. But all German Swiss are at least willing to try English, while the French Swiss tend to avoid English, so maybe that's where the vibe comes from? | | |
| ▲ | oblio 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | For both you and OP, first of you, thank you for "elitarian", but even after reading the definition, I still think you both meant "elitist". And even though I probably tend to agree with both of you, it's kinda funny to blame French or German speakers about being elitist against English speakers, of which native speakers are notoriously monolingual :-) | | |
| ▲ | epolanski 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't blame anyone, I'm Italian and I'm fluent in French, English and Polish besides Italian. I'm just saying that in the French part of Switzerland English wasn't a given among any generation and it neither was common in the German/Italian parts too if you exclude the expats. And yes, francophone tend to be very elitist about consuming exclusively french content, regardless of them being from France, Switzerland or Belgium. | | |
| ▲ | anonyme-honteux 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | "Using your mother tongue is elitist" is bullshit on an epic scale. It's litteraly your mother tongue man, everyone outside of the elite has a mother, and therefore a mother tongue, it's not expansive, it's your basic birth right. Why don't people consume audio/video in a foreign language ? I'm a polyglot myself, so I enjoy that very much, but the simple truth is that most people don't invest the time for becoming fluent in other languages in countries with a "big" language. Works for France, the US, the UK, Spain, Mexico, Japan or China. Why ? Pretty obvious. Become fluent in a foreign language is a huge effort. Making that effort really only works if you either WANT to do it or if you NEED to do it. The WANT factor is the same everywhere but the NEED to learn a language is way lower if your mother tongue is in the top 5 - or top 10 languages of the world. The only thing that is specific to French is that French & English have this weird shared history that makes the written langauges very similar and the oral languages very different. So a frequent compromise for french speakers is to become fluent enough at reading/writing, but quite bad at hearing/speaking. |
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| ▲ | sschueller 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Switzerland has 4 official languages and English is not one of them. |
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| ▲ | elliotec 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is simply not true. Even standard German is a second language in Switzerland. I’m Swiss. | |
| ▲ | Pooge 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > And most people speak (or at least understand) English. This is wrong. In cities where there's a lot of tourism, they might understand. Most Swiss people only speak their local languages (German or French). As for those living in Ticino, they tend to be better polyglots. | | |
| ▲ | Lukas_Skywalker 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That doesn‘t match my experience. About 40% of all Swiss inhabitants speak English at least once a week [1]. Anecdotally, I can't think of a single acquaintance younger than 50 years old that doesn't speak fluently. Everyone in Switzerland learns English at school for at least five years. Most even for seven years. Some of my German speaking friends even talk in English to French speaking people, even when both have learned the other‘s respective language at school. [1]: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/bevoelkerun... | | |
| ▲ | Pooge 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Everyone in Switzerland learns English at school for at least five years. Most even for seven years. We learn the other's respective language for 7 years, too. Yet, as you pointed out, people speak in English because there is no willingness to learn and apply the other's language. Some of my friends speak English fluently, but I have a very hard bias as I work in IT. My whole family doesn't speak any language other than French. Most of the people I've been to school with don't come close to speaking English casually. None would watch an English content creator. Due to the shared heritage between the English and German languages, perhaps it's different in the German-speaking region. If you ask someone slightly complicated English questions, they might not be completely lost - after all, some words share the same etymology. But Switzerland is absolutely not an English-speaking country at all. | | |
| ▲ | Lukas_Skywalker 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | No, I wouldn't say it's an English-speaking country either. No one talks in English to their peers that are from the same language region. But yes, I can mostly speak of the German-speaking part. People generally have little problems switching to English, and are used to speaking as well. | | |
| ▲ | Pooge 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Would you say this is also true of Swiss living in more rural areas? And among older people, too? | | |
| ▲ | Lukas_Skywalker 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is just a feeling, and I am still speaking for the German part only, but I think age matters less than urban/rural. Many older people I know have no problems communicating in English when they‘re abroad. Would be interesting to have the BFS statistics split by age group and region as well… |
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| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I met plenty of people in Lausanne who didn't speak English, or at least didn't want to speak English (it is hard to tell, and anyways, it doesn't really matter). I visited Montreal shortly after my 2 year stay in Lausanne ended and I was surprised on how multi-lingual people were there. | | |
| ▲ | tharkun__ an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Montreal is not representative of Quebec in general. Montreal itself is very multilingual and anglophone depending on what specific part you're in. In the very touristy parts of Montreal you won't even notice French "requirements". Leave the island of Montreal towards the rest of Quebec (i.e. not towards Ontario) and you will find less and less people willing or able to speak English very very quickly. Until they think you're a tourist. If they hear you speak another language than English and you seem like you're a tourist, then almost every Quebecer will try his best to speak English even if it means using hand and feet to communicate. But if they think even for a second that you're actually Canadian, then outside Montreal and even in some parts of Montreal you will be met with the full force of Quebecois pride and nationalism and you better speak French to them. | | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid an hour ago | parent [-] | | Lausanne is also not representative of Switzerland and is pretty touristy, although I guess Geneva is even more so. | | |
| ▲ | WillPostForFood 32 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Y'all are both claiming that the major cities in their region are not representative because they are touristy? That's going to apply to most major cities. Tokyo not representative of Japan, New York not representative of USA, Dublin not representative of Ireland, etc.. But they are. |
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| ▲ | lcouturi 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well, it makes sense. Canada still has a significant English-speaking majority. Even if Québec in isolation has a French-speaking majority, there's a very large incentive for French-speaking citizens to learn English because their province is surrounded by primarily Anglophone regions. There are also other factors at play. Montréal has a fairly large community of native English speakers and receives a lot of tourism from Anglophone Canada and the United States due to its status as the largest city in Québec (and second largest in Canada). It also gets a lot of immigrants, many of which are (at least initially) more proficient in English than in French. I can't say I'm entirely familiar with the situation in Switzerland, but as far as I know the country has four official languages, none of which are English. It also doesn't border any English-speaking countries. It seems English is mostly used as a lingua franca for communication between citizens who don't otherwise share a language rather than due to the direct presence of native Anglophones. Also, Romansh aside, all national languages of Switzerland (French, German and Italian) are spoken in areas that directly border a country where that language is the national language (France, Italy, Germany/Austria). With Switzerland being in the Schengen Area, its linguistic regions may be considered to be part of a much larger individual linguistic communities, which I feel may also diminish the need to learn other languages. | | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I can't say I'm entirely familiar with the situation in Switzerland, but as far as I know the country has four official languages, none of which are English. The language of French Switzerland is French. You'll never hear German, Italian, or Romansch. If you only spoke German and not French or English, you really couldn't live there very effectively (only places like Bern or Basel are truly multi-lingual), yes you'll get your official docs in German but then what? I assume the same is true in German speaking Switzerland, and I have no idea about Italian Switzerland. If a Swiss German and Swiss French met for coffee, what language do you think they would wind up speaking? Perhaps English if neither had comfortable fluency in the other language. Not to take away from your point, but English can get you really far in this world. |
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| ▲ | paulg2222 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is not German, but Alemannic. | | |
| ▲ | Pooge 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm sorry if this sounds offensive or derogatory. But as a Swiss person, I've never heard anyone call it "Alemannic". Whether it be foreigners, Swiss-French speakers or Swiss-German speakers, everyone called it "German". | | |
| ▲ | computerthings 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German > Swiss German (Standard German: Schweizerdeutsch, Alemannic German: Schwiizerdütsch, Schwyzerdütsch, Schwiizertüütsch, Schwizertitsch Mundart, and others; Romansh: Svizzers Tudestg) is any of the Alemannic dialects spoken in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, and in some Alpine communities in Northern Italy bordering Switzerland. All Swiss-German is an Alemannic dialect, not all Alemannic dialects are Swiss-German, is how I'd interpret that. | |
| ▲ | slater 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Probably making a distinction between high german and swiss german. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German |
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| ▲ | crucialfelix 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It depends what you interact with. I tried it fresh today and it quickly decided I'm a Berliner muslim who likes Nigerian food because I lingered for a minute on something. That interest graph is very fast and volatile. | |
| ▲ | sushid 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Uhh... that's kind of how these algorithms work. I presume you interact (i.e. don't scroll past) with a lot of the English posts. It's going to index on that and show you more English content. When I'm abroad, I might see a few posts in their native language but the algorithm will revert to showing English posts about the city/country once it realizes I'm not really jiving with Portuguese posts, for example. | |
| ▲ | 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | financypants 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | i mean, we all have the algorithm tailored to what we want to see, so the parent comment here is kind of a moot point, right? | | |
| ▲ | datavirtue 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | I joined TikTok and was immediately barraged with naked young girls. Haven't been back since. |
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| ▲ | Kkoala 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| My experience is that it serves you the content that you spent time watching and engaging with. And it's quite easy to steer it towards a certain topic if you want to |
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| ▲ | spandrew 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I believe the algo is somewhat timezone based, too. Very common for ppl to be served Chinese or asian influencer content after 12pm (EST). So common, in fact, most of the western users begin posting "whelp, time to go to bed!" The majority of the content feels regional, though. |
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| ▲ | 0xffff2 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I've never used tiktok... Do you mean 12AM (midnight)? Or are people commonly in the habit of mid-afternoon naps? | |
| ▲ | IncRnd 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | 12PM is Noon. Did you mean Midnight? |
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| ▲ | 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | ehsankia 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Canada and potentially the UK are gonna be having the biggest shock I guess. Potentially Australia too? |
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| ▲ | fouronnes3 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The question is, was this a conscious human design decision or did the algorithm learn to do that by itself? |
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| ▲ | numpad0 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I would believe if someone said it was completely organic. It's just how Internet is and how social graphs build up. The typical American notion that the Internet is nearly 100% dominated by American English socio-cultural platform and English is the foundational language of the world's all cognitive processing is just an annoying megalomaniac hallucination. English is used as a lot as a fallback language for inter-cultural exchanges. In that sense it's kind of dominating, but that's it. Intra-cultural communications happens in local languages, and even if that preferred language happened to be one of en-* locales, that only means everyone is functionally bilingual, and it doesn't mean cultural informational borders don't exist. Data still only goes through bridging connections. | |
| ▲ | jrflowers 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Considering the algorithm did not crawl out of the primordial ooze unbidden by man I am going to guess the former. | | |
| ▲ | markeroon 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | The recommendation engine is at least partially learned so it’s fairly likely that it’s the latter |
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| ▲ | mrbungie 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The algo learned "by itself", but humans set a objetive to optimize and then implemented it to do so as well as it they could. So essentially both I guess? | | |
| ▲ | numpad0 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | It tends to get people annoyed if you don't. Facebook user distribution is like 12% Indian and 6% American. Twitter is(was) 34% English and 16% Japanese. Bluesky was at one point 43% Japanese. If your feed ISN'T filled with Hindi, Chinese, Spanish, Japanese and so on, with only one in five or less made in English sent from US, your feed is tampered with. But otherwise that social media would be genuinely less useful. Mastodon only had the raw feed and that drove European network operators insane, so much so that they effectively GFW'd itself. |
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| ▲ | svnt 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why is that the question? If it learned to do it by itself it still is being allowed to do it by humans. | |
| ▲ | moralestapia 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You don't deserve the downvotes from the immature peeps around here. Your question is 100% valid. I would lean for the latter, the simple explanation may be that people just prefer local content. |
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| ▲ | runjake 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| As an American in the US, I get quite a bit of foreign and foreign language content under For You. This is the inverse to the situation you describe but it makes me doubtful that non-US don't see a lot of American content. |
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| ▲ | graeme 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | The algo bends to your interests. But it's trivial to test the default reach if you ever post a video. They show stats for viewer location. You can even find guides by people trying to make their phone seem american so they can reach us audiences. |
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| ▲ | realusername 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't think it does, I don't see any single content from my country's language. Tiktok is very good at adapting the content to you. |
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| ▲ | the_clarence 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If its like Reels (I dont use tiktok) as soon as you are in France its only French content. Same for youtube. |
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| ▲ | qingcharles 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I actually had to check if TikTok was subject to the French protection laws on localized media quotas. I see it applies to Netflix et al, but not directly to TikTok. |
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| ▲ | dayjah 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Source? My anecdotal evidence of watching TikTok usage on others’ phones while riding subway systems in Paris suggest there’s plenty of English-language content out there. |
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| ▲ | permo-w 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | in Morocco most of the adults speak French and Arabic, so when they need to speak to an Englisher they get some kids over to help because they all speak English from TikTok | | |
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| ▲ | blackeyeblitzar 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| TikTok is surprisingly national at the surface level, but it is all coordinated back with the parent China based entities (ByteDance, Douyin, and the CCP), so that even if it is national, it upholds China’s national interests. See the story at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42739855 for more details. But basically, TikTok executives had to agree to let ByteDance monitor their personal devices, swear oaths to uphold various goals of the CCP (“national unity” “socialism” etc), report to both a US-based manager and a China-based manager, uphold the CCP’s moderation/censorship scheme, and so on. It is REALLY aggressive and unethical, but also reveals how subtly manipulative the entire system of TikTok is. |
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| ▲ | gunian 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Do you think it would be possible to show this programmatically? As in scrape n posts from TikTok and Reels and show the first displays CCP tendencies? Or is this like a general US freedom China dictator logic | | |
| ▲ | insane_dreamer 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | It actually doesn't matter whether TT has done it already or not. What matters is that it has the __capability__ of doing it, in ways that would be difficult to detect, when it proves expedient to do so. | | |
| ▲ | markdown 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yup, but of course more than one person has to agree for this to actually happen. Which is not the case for other apps, like Twitter/X. If Musk wants to remove a government, he has only to promote "free speech" and let falsehoods and misinformation dominate his platform. | | |
| ▲ | gunian 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | geopolitics aside could a turing machine identify misinformation / programatically check whether something is true or not? because even among humans there is no agreement | | |
| ▲ | markdown 26 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > even among humans there is no agreement This is just not true. There are objective facts eg. the earth is round. We can all agree on this, and any information to the contrary should be banned. The majority of us agree that racism is bad for society. Racist content should be banned. Yes there are always going to be humans who think the earth is flat or has a core of cheese, but these people can be relegated to the fringes of society. |
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| ▲ | ghfhghg 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Your link doesn't appear to work | | | |
| ▲ | lupire 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You are conflating strong Chinese Communist control of the business with how the content behaves. TikTok is full of content that would put a Chinese person in prison. See this 2019 article outlining Chinese Communist moderation policies that (obviously) were attached to the app when TikTok was new, but were removed for non-Chinese user communities. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-... |
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