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ddalex 8 months ago

Am I the only one that is not worried at all about the camera and super concerned about microphones ? The camera may see me staring into the screen, woo hoo. The microphones will hear everything I discuss, incl. confidential information.

There is no physical microphone cover there, is it ?

lukan 8 months ago | parent | next [-]

Sound is usually more sensitive, yes. But even if there is a physical switch on the laptop, only very exotic smartphones have them.

Also, loudspeakers can act as microphones, too.

In other words, paranoia gets exhausting in modern times.

(And my smartphone has a replacable battery for that reason to at least sometimes enjoy potentially surveillance free time)

MarcusE1W 8 months ago | parent | next [-]

My Pinephone has a switch for the microphone and also my Pinebook Pro laptop. But I also would agree that this is exotic hardware.

sharpshadow 8 months ago | parent | prev [-]

I have an old iPhone 7 which has an audio IC issue and the microphone is physically disconnected. Calls don’t work, video records without sound etc. need to connect an external microphone to have one.

Apart from the inconvenience it was somehow liberating knowing there is no microphone physically active.

jdblair 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Framework has a physical microphone switch next to the camera switch.

klausa 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Modern (2019-ish? forwards?) MacBooks have physical disconnect for microphones when the lid is shut.

jack_arleth 8 months ago | parent [-]

Framework laptops have the same solution.

dghughes 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And the true or not Google or other apps listening then you see ads based on that conversation. I think it's true since far too many times obscure things I've spoken about appear in ads soon after the conversation. So yes I'd say a mic blocking feature you can confirm is working, blocking, is needed.

karolist 8 months ago | parent | next [-]

Recommendation engines work on vast amounts of data they have on you and whatever made you speak about thing X was likely preceded by your internet activity which is not very unique as a precursor to speaking about X. In other words, if other people do Y on the internet and then end up doing stuff related to X, the recommendation engine will show you X just because you also did Y.

The other explanation is one of your contacts who were part of the conversation did things that either directly related to thing X, which you spoke about, or something the algorithm see other people do that relates to X, and you got shown ads based on your affiliation to this person.

I've also worked at FAANG and never seen proof to such claims anywhere in the code, and with the amount of people working there who care about these issues deeply I'd expect this to leak by now, if this happens but is siloed...

ch4s3 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I think it's true since far too many times obscure things I've spoken about appear in ads soon after the conversation

People have been making claims like this since at least the early 90s, about TV then, and no one ever credibly claims to have worked on something like this. I've worked with purchased ad data and I've never seen this data or anything that implies that it exists. It seems far more likely that its a trick of memory. You ignore most ads you see, but you remember ones that relate to odd topics that interest you.

gravitronic 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Reminds me of the chrome bug I filed years ago that is still unfixed. An extension with access to all browsing tabs can open a hidden iframe to a website that commonly would have mic and camera permission (like hangouts.google.com), and then inject its own JavaScript into that hidden iframe to capture mic or camera.

For this to work hangouts.google.com had to not include the HTTP header to block iframing but thankfully if you make up a URL the 404 page served on that domain does not include that http header.

Qem 8 months ago | parent | prev [-]

Just a personal anecdote: I don't have a dog, but my grandma has two. Once, while visiting her, the dogs were barking a lot. Almost immediately I started receiving ads for dog food in my cellphone.

michaelt 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The camera privacy issue arises because teenagers and college kids often have their computer in their bedroom.

So a webcam hack that lets them watch my 16 year old daughter study would also let them watch her sleeping, getting dressed, and making out with her boyfriend.

pmontra 8 months ago | parent [-]

It's not only a teenager or college kid issue. I've seen adults with a computer in their bedroom because it's a kind of private space where they don't expect anybody to inadvertently bump into it.

My laptop is in my bedroom in winter, right now, because it's one of the smallest rooms and I can heat it easily. I use it in other parts of the house in the other seasons. I do have a sliding cover on the camera. I bought it years ago. The main issue is the microphone.

shermantanktop 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When I have to do faux-2FA auth using numeric codes sent by text or email, I sometimes catch myself quietly saying the numbers. A microphone would by quite handy for an attacker, even if they couldn’t see all my network traffic.

camgunz 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A picture of you with the subject "I know what you were looking at when I took this picture of you" is pretty good blackmail--I think there's an active campaign doing this even.

ddalex 8 months ago | parent | next [-]

This would've been blackmail 20 years ago.... nowadays it's just "of course you know, I shared my OF likes publicly", will not even raise an eyebrow; or perhaps I'm living in too bohemian society circles

throw16180339 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I received a phishing email from this campaign or a similar one several months ago. The email opened with my name and contained a Google Maps photo of a house where I'd lived 8 years before. The author claimed to have hacked my laptop and captured videos of me doing embarrassing things. They would release the videos unless I paid them $1000 in Bitcoin. I searched and it's an extremely common scam, but I did panic for a few minutes.

jeltz 8 months ago | parent | prev [-]

Excellent blackmail against teenagers. Pointless against me as an adult.

spacemanspiff01 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I honestly like the physical switch on the framework, which disconnects the microphone/webcam fully.

djtango 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes I really wish we could have a physical switch for device mic

ykonstant 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As someone who often speaks gibberish to myself due to ptsd, if someone recorded me in my room they could convince anyone I am utterly insane, beyond any hope. It is a great way to blackmail people with coprolalia or other verbal tics.

And yeah, if they had access to my webcam, they would just see a guy staring into the screen or walking back and forth in the room.

chmod775 8 months ago | parent [-]

Eh, random utterances are more common than you think. Especially amongst older people. Most will know at least a couple family members who tend to mutter random things to themselves.

Nobody who is themselves sane is going to judge another for random crap they say when they think themselves alone.

ashoeafoot 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Your speakers are a microphone ..

benj111 8 months ago | parent | next [-]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that 'everything' is a thermometer, on the basis that many things behave differently at different temperatures.

You can also use an LED as a light sensor.

and I also came across a YT vid of a console that used a piezo electric speaker for motion sensing.

I wonder if you could use a track pad to pick up sound.

Sporktacular 8 months ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, but they aren't an input device with an amp wired in the right direction and an A/D converter to read it out.

_joel 8 months ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Disable it all in the BIOS?

pmoriarty 8 months ago | parent | prev [-]

"Am I the only one that is not worried at all about the camera and super concerned about microphones ? The camera may see me staring into the screen, woo hoo. The microphones will hear everything I discuss, incl. confidential information."

All phones are suspect. We should go back to only carrying pagers.