| ▲ | nayuki 17 hours ago |
| > Banknotes are useful. Not only do they provide their owner with a standard set of payments services, they also offer financial anonymity. > The product is weaponized and turned against its provider. This same sort of weaponization characterizes the modern provision of banknotes. The government, like Walmart, provides citizens with a privacy-enhancing product: cash. This article has a strange fixation on the anonymous aspect of cash. It's almost suggesting that it's morally wrong to use cash (though we seem to tolerate it in society), and that non-anonymous alternatives that are tracked are better. Let me give several arguments for why cash is beneficial even if you ignore anonymity: 0) Payments are final. Once you handed over cash, it cannot be taken back - unlike cheques and electronic money transfers, where you can claim "it was fraud" and ask the bank to reverse the payment. This gives the receiver a fairly strong guarantee of payment (except for counterfeit cash). 1) Payments are limited. Once you paid the cash and walk away, the receiver cannot take more money out of your wallet. This is unlike cheques and credit cards, where the receiver could use the account numbers to charge you more money anytime later. 2) No censorship. Look at the categories of goods and services that Visa and Mastercard ban. You might not agree with all of them. You might not be happy about future changes in rules. 3) No tolling. For the privilege of spending money on a credit card, the credit card company charges ~2% to the merchant, who in turn raises prices on the goods that you buy. Other payment methods like cheques, debit, bank transfers, wire transfers, etc. have other fee structures (generally much less than credit cards), but the fact that these payments are intermediated by financial companies means that they could charge arbitrary fees to you for transferring your money. |
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| ▲ | cesarb 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Here's another one: 4) It's offline, and works in the absence of electric power. Even if you're in a tiny village deep in the middle of the Amazon forest, you can still pay for things with cash. |
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| ▲ | baud147258 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | it's also useful when power is cut, for example in case of natural disaster (I just saw today a video on Waffle House, where their disaster playbook mentioned just that) |
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| ▲ | gwbas1c 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Some other nice things about cash: - It's useful with children. A concrete representation of value is tangible compared to an abstract number in a bank account. - It's great for gifts - It's harder to refuse: I've had a restaurant make a mistake and then refuse to charge me. I left cash on the table when I left. |
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| ▲ | lxgr 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | > It's useful with children. A concrete representation of value is tangible compared to an abstract number in a bank account. I hear this often, but I'm not at all convinced it's true. And even if it were: Children will eventually grow up and have to manage their non-cash finances at some point. Why not teach them early? I've had a checking account and debit card since I was 10 years old, and subjectively this has only contributed to being able to treat "abstract" and physical money as exactly the same from a budgeting point of view. > It's great for gifts For in-person gifts. Sending it in the mail is usually a bad idea, as I've personally experienced too often in my life. Also, at least in the US, there seems to be some weird stigma against cash gifts that's created a huge industry of Visa/Mastercard gift cards with horrendous fees and a high chance of falling victim to some kind of scam. | | |
| ▲ | gwbas1c 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I've had a checking account and debit card since I was 10 years old I dare you to teach a 4 or 5 year old to use one! | | |
| ▲ | lxgr 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | Do you think they'd fare much better with budgeting physical cash? | | |
| ▲ | rcdemski 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | I certainly didn’t. I remember getting cash as a young child, thinking with $20 I was “rich”, and rapidly blowing it on Sim City. I only understood the value of money once I both had a bank account and a job that funded it. |
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| ▲ | littlestymaar 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > It's almost suggesting that it's morally wrong to use cash Quite the opposite actually, it emphasizes the importance of such anonymity but also acknowledges that it also comes with problems for society. > 0) Payments are final. Once you handed over cash, it cannot be taken back First this isn't true, as most good comes with legal guarantee, retraction rights and so on. And then the near-final aspect of cash is also the reason why armed robberies works. (And yes I said near final, because the police routinely seize cash from people who got it illegally). > 3) No tolling. Cash is extremely expensive to handle for banks, and even if they don't charge you directly, they definitely factor this cost in what they charge to all their customers (business and individuals alike). |
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| ▲ | lxgr 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > First this isn't true, as most good comes with legal guarantee, retraction rights and so on. Finality of the underlying transaction is a different concern than that of the means of payment. Cash is indeed, at least in some jurisdictions, the only thing you can be sure to not have taken away from you when acquired bona fide, even if it turns out to have originally been stolen from its legitimate owner. Practically, some other payment methods have similar guarantees, though (for example, you generally can't have money clawed back as a merchant accepting credit or debit cards in person). | |
| ▲ | fwn 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Quite the opposite actually, it emphasizes the importance of such anonymity but also acknowledges that it also comes with problems for society. I think this is just a tongue-in-cheek argument by the author. The article suggests adding a penalty for using cash, which, given the highly competitive payments landscape, will effectively accelerate the phase-out. Cynically, this could be read as making payment privacy exclusive to the better off, which has its own highly problematic implications. Purely from the perspective of raising more government funds, I can understand their argument. But from that perspective, I think there are better, less disruptive ways for governments to extract value from the payments system. |
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| ▲ | ChadNauseam 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Would you say that most of the benefits you attribute to cash can only be realized electronically using cryptocurrencies? |
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| ▲ | throwaway48476 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | None of those qualities are true of crypto currency. It is not anonymous with bitcoin, it is not final as with tether, and KYC makes it not censorship resistant either. And for all this it has fairly high tolls too. Crypto is not a currency used for trade except illegal trade. It is a greater fool scheme. | | |
| ▲ | torified 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've made purchases with monero that were anonymous and final. From memory the transaction fee was something like 10c. Worth every penny. |
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| ▲ | gwbas1c 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Tolling on cryptocurrencies is absurdly high. | | | |
| ▲ | bckygldstn 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In most developed countries outside the US, electronic bank transfers and payments fulfil 1 and 3. |
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