| ▲ | myrmidon 2 days ago |
| Are western comics "trojan horses for activism and ESG scores"? What do you mean by this (activism and ESG)? Who is "they"? |
|
| ▲ | akimbostrawman 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| They (Japanese fiction) aren't trojan horses. I'm not a search engine but ESG is basically corporate and government funding to include current year real world activism into media which is the antithesis of fiction. |
| |
| ▲ | myrmidon a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Alright, so the search engine told me that "ESG" is a set of criteria to rate sustainability of corporations/investments, where E stands for environment (ressource efficiency/non-pollution, ...), S for social (worker safety, non-discrimination, ...) and G for governance (risk management, compliance, anti-corruption). Please correct misconceptions. You are suggesting that government pays writers to show those kinds of sustainability in a overly positive way? How would western media look if it wasn't a trojan horse? Would it show slavery, environmental pollution and feudalism in a much more positive light? How can you be sure that the mismatch here is from goverment/corporate influence on writers, and not simply a difference in ethical values between the average writer and you? | | |
| ▲ | akimbostrawman a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Its not just these three goals. Like the Patriot Act names rarely tell the full story. >not simply a difference in ethical values between the average writer and you? Because they only done this since its socially and commercially profitable? | | |
| ▲ | myrmidon a day ago | parent [-] | | > Because they only done this since its socially and commercially profitable? You still did not tell me what those trojan horse writers are doing except that it is outside of the definition of "ESG score" that I provided. What has become socially and commercially profitable? | | |
| ▲ | akimbostrawman a day ago | parent [-] | | Read a recent comic or do more than superficial googling or Wikipedia. If you can't tell then nothing I will say will help. |
|
| |
| ▲ | Cthulhu_ a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > How would western media look if it wasn't a trojan horse? Would it show slavery, environmental pollution and feudalism in a much more positive light? The Boys does this, but ironically - but a lot of people apparently miss the point of it being ironic / a pisstake. |
| |
| ▲ | pjc50 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | ESG is for corporates. Authors are individuals. This is just "anti-woke" whinging by another (dimly related) name. | | |
| ▲ | akimbostrawman a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Authors especially comic ones are usually part of big publisher like Marvel or DC that own the IP and call the shots. They also have ESG scores and they decide which activism to include that increases the score and raises more investor or government funding. | |
| ▲ | Cthulhu_ a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | A lot of authors are commissioned though, basically given a brief of what to write. More often than not in more commercial franchises though, e.g. Marvel, Warhammer, video game adaptations / tie-ins, Minecraft, Manning books, etc. But that goes into the realm of commercial media, vs "artistic" media where authors can just do whatever they want, and maybe they'll find a publisher and get successful. |
| |
| ▲ | greenie_beans a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | expecting corporate publishing to be a source of good art is a mistake. of course a corporation will adapt to the market. seems like you have a problem with the free market which is exploiting the desire for wokeness in culture. |
|
|
| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
|
| ▲ | Levitz a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >Are western comics "trojan horses for activism and ESG scores"? At times they can get very preachy, which is the problem. The reason is irrelevant, be it ESG investments or personal activism or what have you. Japanese media can (and often does) include elements that are considered progressive, but it's rare for those to be crudely inserted for the sake of inserting them. Characters or themes that would be bemoaned in western media are appreciated because they are actually done in interesting ways, rather than acting as a political vibe check for the reader. Which, in all honesty, is how I feel about this comment thread too. I simply do not believe anymore that people don't know what others mean when they say "woke". Not at this point. Yes it's hard to give a specific definition, but so is the case for fascism and the word is so, SO overused in political discourse that, funny enough, it has almost lost its meaning. Rarely does anyone go around saying "define fascism". And so comments are laid as bait, lest someone take a misstep which allows them to be branded as a series of -ists. Whatever "woke" is, it is a thing. And many people are exhausted from it. |
| |
| ▲ | myrmidon a day ago | parent | next [-] | | You raise a completely valid point that "fascism" is used in exactly the same way by the left political spectrum. But this does not make the use of woke as a generic accusation any better. > I simply do not believe anymore that people don't know what others mean when they say "woke" The insiduous thing about this is: Different people do mean different things with this. Some people are maybe against depicting women in leadership roles; others might not want to normalize homosexuality. Another group might want to keep any mention of transgenderism away from their kids. Someone else might just want to see more racist jokes about Mexicans. All those views are radically different; a lot of those "anti-woke" views would not even agree with each other. By allowing weasely standpoints like that in a debate, you make it very easy for people to claim broad support for stupid and bigoted views without having to justify them. So, in the context of western comics, what does "too much woke" mean to you? | | |
| ▲ | havblue a day ago | parent [-] | | >against depicting women in leadership roles; >keep any mention of transgenderism away from their kids >want to see more racist jokes about Mexicans >So, in the context of western comics, what does "too much woke" mean to you? I think you're demonstrating the optimal strategy that people should take. If an opinion can easily get you labeled as a bad person, it's probably better to just not talk about it. |
| |
| ▲ | Cthulhu_ a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Is this factually correct or can you simply not recognise the politicaly activism in the Japanese productions because of the cultural differences, or because they're more subtle or integrated into the story? I mean that last one is a good thing; I think that instead of pearl-clutching and yelling "woke11!111" on the internet for a new Netflix production, it's more intellectually honest to criticize poor writing. |
|
|
| ▲ | simgt 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| [flagged] |
| |
| ▲ | akimbostrawman 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Could you please elaborate how I disagree with Japanese fiction? Thx :) | | |
| ▲ | whoknowsidont a day ago | parent [-] | | Your entire comment history is ragebait with an extreme focus on a particular and peculiar set of narratives. Your very first comment started out with this and it's basically been downhill from there. I don't think OP, or anyone else, needs to explain your positions and motivations for you. Indeed, I don't even think you're looking to truthfully engage here. Here's another part of the thread where someone asks clear questions and once you realize you're in a pickle you just throw out some rhetorical trash to upend the conversation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42245873 |
|
|
