I always opt out of the scanner (even have a special shirt [1]), and without fail they always stand me by the intake (radio-leaky-end) of the baggage x-ray machine for 5+ minutes.

[1]: https://www.davisr.me/projects/art/tsashirt.jpg

I would be curious to know which airport(s) you receive this treatment from? I fly regularly between a handful of major US hubs. There is only one airport that I would be vocal about their treatment of passengers to a group of local TSA that I played co-ed sports with. The most senior one's response was that it wasn't surprising as that location (entire airport management) has had a toxic culture from the top down and they were trying to clean it up but it's still a bureaucracy. Anywhere else and I have an agent that would be having an off or bad day, but nothing like what you are describing at any of the others.

When I pull the pre-check random scanner check, I opt out and will go straight into small talk with the agent, they don't like it any more than you do, (maybe one or two might) but the majority they want it over with as quickly as you do. My personal tactic is to go into my story of being sexually molested at a checkpoint at an airport in Spain. It was very unexpected and extremely uncomfortable, including the smile after as though waiting for me to drop my number. I can joke about it now, and it gives TSA agents an opening to assure me that is not their intent without being weird about it. They're also annoyed that people who do things like that give them all a bad rep

I'm sorry you experienced this. Don't be hard on yourself for not calling them out, you shouldn't have to shoulder the burden of doing so.

The last I was in San Francisco International the TSA staff came barreling out of their door and the first agent out yelled into the terminal, "MAN! I really hope someone opts out today! I can't wait to give that guy a serious patdown."

They're trained to operate in an unethical way.

My 2c: I use precheck, and fly regularly between RDU and PBI. Opting out of the 3d face camera has always been easy, and I never had pushback from them. PBI has well placed opt-out signs, but I hadn't see them at RDU.

I expect that one day it won't be optional, but I'll avoid it while I can

> "I'd bet you opted out because you like this."

"You're damn right I like it, usually I have to pay for it."

Opting out of the face scanner is a totally different experience than opting out of the body scanner lol

I always opt-out, of course.

The most recent time, which was years ago now, when I was leaving the country (I'm not a US citizen, and had finished working on a H1-B).

In the EU, there's delay - they have to get someone, you go to a room, pat-down. Unremarkable.

In the US, delay, they get someone - but the "pat-down" was so forceful I had trouble keeping my balance. It seemed to me to be deliberately excessive.

Fortunately, I do not live in, and do not need to travel to, the USA.

> Apple's fault

Apple showed how this can be done without compromise.

A combination of on-device-only FaceID and app-by-app opt-in to even trigger a validation, with on-device federal ID validation of some kind, putting you in control of presenting a cryptographically signed ID, would, in fact, be ideal for both convenience and privacy.

IF you're going to require ID, that would be a fine way.

The REAL issue is whether ID should be allowed to be required at all to move around, or if you have the right to anonymously assemble (and travel for assembly) within your own national boundary. That's the goalpost to debate.

It is more recent, multi angle, high res data. It allows their training data to be much better.

This "it changes nothing" attitude is unproductive.

> the biometric data collected when you got your ID

When I got my license, which I can use to board a flight in my country I did not give fingerprints or an eye scan. They have my photo, DOB, name - not more.

Maybe I’m old school but I despise the idea of the government tracking me as I travel. Time and time again they are caught violating privacy laws and abusing power.

The point of this program isn't that it makes things substantially quicker at the checkpoint – it is a minor speed-up at best. The goal is to normalize the collection of biometric data, to shift the Overton window of surveillance.

I was with you until "doesn't grant them info that they don't already have." It gives them the opportunity to update their face model of you in a confirmed and consistent manner.

It also doesn't improve anything:

An agent comparison of you vs the id is still considered to be the gold standard. When this system fails, you have to default to the agent's comparison. This is a slow down compared to the previous scenario.

The time for an id comparison isn't the bottleneck in security. It's the physical actions used to go through the TSA and the built in inconsistency to prevent people from speedrunning the screening.

If it doesn’t change anything, why is it needed then? And I don’t think it is faster than a human matching the ID card against a person at all.

It could be used to "update" the record.

They make it opt out so they don't need to demonstrate the cost/benefits of making it required.

They make it opt out because there are always a few people who object[1], so this is a safety valve.

If everyone opted out ("I am Spartacus") then it would stop and they would have to switch to less efficient means. (If it weren't less efficient then they wouldn't need this one.)

As John Gilmore points out at http://new.toad.com/gnu/ :

"If you politely decline to show ID whenever someone asks (or demands) it, and continue politely declining regardless of how they escalate, you will discover what your rights are. You'll be surprised. You'll get away with it. Most of the people who were asking for it have no right to demand it. They've been relying on your voluntary cooperation. They forgot to tell you that part; but you just found it out for yourself. Sometimes you may discover that you didn't have the right to live, move around, or do business in your own country without government-issued documents. That's very interesting knowledge to acquire first-hand too. If you haven't recently tried exercising your right to exist and live without government permission, are you sure you still have that right?"

[1] In one of the author Robert Heinlein's biographical accounts he walks out of a hotel because they demand to see id at registration. He went to another hotel which did not.

Nope - Canadian here, opted out in Austin.

You're talking about the border exit. We're talking about security after checkin.

This is it. I don't think I've opted out of it. I know I can but I know the agent is going to make a big deal of it and the line is already long for everyone behind me so whatever lets just get through it.