It's the fault of the company that designed the automatic alarm. Not the hotel. But it is accurate to say that the cause of the issue was the outage.

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buran77 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> It's the fault of the company that designed the automatic alarm. Not the hotel.

The hotel picked a monitoring solution which relies exclusively on email, or configured it like that. If anything they are absolutely both to blame but for different things. The company for designing a safety related system like this, the hotel for selecting an inadequate solution/configuration thus allowing their guests to be harmed.

> But it is accurate to say that the cause of the issue was the outage

The cause of the issue is the more immediate one - the configuration of the monitoring system. This avoids going up the causality chain to far - shitty coffee caused engineer to take down email system, and such.

	▲	zardo 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Email going down is the proximate cause. A system configuration relying on a single unreliable communications route is further up the causal chain.

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stackskipton 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Agreed, I'm not sure how it's acceptable to say "Email is exclusive option you can have" vs "We can email you when alarm is going off but light/siren will flash and it must be visible to those using the facility"

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ktm5j 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I feel like there are things we aren't being told here.. what kind of automatic chlorine dosing system both knows that there's too much chlorine and continues to add enough chlorine to the point of being harmful. Something is fishy here...

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ithkuil an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It would be accurate to call it the proximate cause.

Using the unqualified "cause" is misleading click bait and in some places it could get you sued

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spunker540 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Isn’t the cause whatever sprung a leak in the first place? Ie a faulty pipe or valve?

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sokols 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well somebody has to sign off the solution, in this case the hotel.

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01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We can assign fault, or we can ask which levers we can pull to make it better:

1. Can there not just be a light / siren right next to the gas sensors? Easy to fix, but it requires hardware changes on-site.

2. Could Microsoft have not had an outage? Hard to fix.

3. Could they use some better notifications systems like idk self-hosted ntfy.sh with a warning if the server goes down? Yes but nobody wants to pay for that.

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croes 2 hours ago | parent [-]

A light has to be seen, a siren has be heard. I bet email has a better chance of alarming the right person.

And you have to check those lights and sirens that they still work.

Everybody knew email was down.

The real problem is nobody thought of the consequences regarding the alarm system

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stackskipton 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Generally, for sensitive safety systems like this, Light and Siren are visible to those using the facility. So if problem developed, all patrons would be going "Umm, you know your sauna has flashing red light and siren going off?" after they all left the facility.

Yes, they still have to work but first off, both of those are extremely reliable systems, alarm circuits have extremely low risk of failure. Second, testing them takes 5 minutes a week/month, press the button, look for flashing light and listen to wailing noise.

It's inexcusable to think that email/slack or whatever is acceptable as anything other than notification system so people not in facility can be notified that alarms are going off.

EDIT: You are defending this setup and I'm not sure why. This seems email only setup seem indefensible.

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croes 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Because we don’t live in an ideal world.

Testing requires staff and you can be sure those parks are understaffed.

Best thing is to avoid them, next best thing is a cheap solution with low maintenance by the staff to notify as much people as possible.

Email wins.

Not a good solution but the best you will get for the price they are willing to pay

	▲	ssl-3 an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Things do break, so all alarms need periodic testing, whether they consist of email and/or something else. Whether it breaks because a relay has corroded due to years of service in a chlorine-enriched environment, or because O365 is down, or because O365 tightened up on DMARC requirements: It needs tested. And it's not a binary choice. This isn't the World Cup, the Super Bowl, or Highlander. There can be more than one. The alarm system can wear a belt, and suspenders. It can send emails, and it can flash a bright light, and it can also sound an audible alarm.