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▲ Court denies motion to dismiss DRAM price fixing case(litnews.ai)
127 points by ybathaee 8 hours ago | 31 comments
▲SubiculumCode 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If they are price fixing, eff them.

Finally secure a research grant and had budgeted money for a new compute workstation and the RAM prices are killing my budget, because I'd love to get at least 256 GB of RAM and that's 4-5 grand now. Ridiculous, especially since I'd like to have a GPU in it with at least 32Gb of VRAM for medical image model training, so that is also like 4-5 grand too.

Do I wait two years and hope, or pay, isthe question I keep asking myself.

▲mdorazio 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why can't you train with a cloud service?

▲SubiculumCode 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's possibility that I've considered, am still considering. Mostly because I am used to working locally, but also because I am not sure which works out cheapest in the end. For my use cases, if I need anything with more than 24 or 32 GB, it definitely makes sense to rent I thing. Those cards are extra pricy. Also, I keep the GPU and analysis computer for the lab after the grant ends, but I don't keep my budget for online conpute..that would go back to the Federal government, so it makes sense for some level of hardware to be around for lean times

▲doc_ick 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That’s not necessarily private then, and billing changes based on whims.

▲riedel 2 hours ago | parent [-]

At least in Europe we are building a common super-computer infrastructure exactly for this. Tier 0 (EuroHPC) to tier 3 (University clusters) now have considerable amount of GPU (both due to demand, but also since classical CPU-heavy FLOPs have becime even more expensive due to RAM prices). Our system will be in a ISO 27001 / TISAX level 3 scope (rather relevant for engineering). The system work up to a PUE of 1.1 and will also solve part of heating decarbonization problem. We need souvereignity in research. But we at least in research we do not need each lab buying their own workstations anymore. The systems are actually also now also offered to start-ups and small enterprises that don't have the capex/opex for efficient and secure compute themselves.

▲SubiculumCode an hour ago | parent [-]

That is a third possibility, because there are Federal supportrd resources for compute, see [1]. And I can and will probably use at some point, but there is something about not having to deal with other people's systems and having that bare metal right there.

[1] https://allocations.access-ci.org/resources

▲PeterStuer 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's a 3 way prisoners dilemma market where the prisoners have been caught explicitly colluding before. Now they do not need explicit colluding anymore as the pattern and outcome has been established already and the "jail" is as good as closed to new entrants. Clearly the expected "market" is not working in this niche, so something will have to be done about it.

▲ketzu 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am curious to see what will be uncovered in the trial. I know way too little of the market and tech involved to come to a conclusion (beyond anything motivated from wanting cheaper memory again).

Nearly everything could have a non-colluding explanation depending on the tech and market. (for example I would be skeptical to build up extremly expensive production if i follow the widespread belief that Ai is a huge bubble)

However, collusion is not magically out of the question with previous instances and some unexplained indicators. (which imo is what this dismissal means)

▲sysguest 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

idk going with DDR3/4/5 upgrades are really makes me doubt the whole argument...

those upgrades ARE ACTUAL UPGRADES, and if exiting ddr4 helps on producing more ddr5, why not?

(and the cheap chinese makers can produce plenty of those ddr4 chips, so it's NOT that "monopoly destroying the market" scenario)

▲poglet 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Where is everyone finding this cheap Chinese ddr4? Looking for a 16gb sodimm, can't see anything cheap.

▲cowlevel 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It doesn't. They're made in different factories with different processes.

▲gbnwl 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Is it just about the factories though? I thought a big part of the current shortage was there literally not being enough silicon wafers to meet demand so much of that supply being redirected towards HBM led to a shortage of DDR4/DDR5 production.

▲sysguest 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

...why not?

you can just sell the production line and re-purpose human workers for ddr5?

▲cowlevel 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

I don't think you get how specialised these facilities are. They can't convert from one process to another, for the same reason they can't just build a new one on the new process. The physical building is not even slightly the bottleneck. If they can afford a new process they can afford a new building for it.

▲shevy-java 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's good that the courts finally look at the price fixing of the RAM cartel. I think it must become a much bigger lawsuit. It can not be that these de-facto monopolies keep on fixing the prices upwards. Even in a very capitalistic society such as the USA was once (before the orange mafia hijacked the country, even though in a more recent election the mafia lost big), capitalism assumes that free market competition lowers the prices and affordability for the average Joe, as a buyer. Clearly this is NOT the case here in the RAM cartel. You now pay like 3x as much as you did two or three years ago - and the high prices are maintained. That's a cartel. That has nothing to do with a free market.

I also think mandatory jail times for the CEOs need to happen. It can not be that they can buy their way out of punishments and damage they cause against society.

▲mesm7903 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If the claims hold up, this is a big deal for anyone building PCs or servers right now — RAM prices directly shape what people can afford to build.

▲weikju 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

This forum is for humans.

▲beloch a minute ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If only they could be tried for ̶ ̶b̶r̶e̶a̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ reversing Moore's law.

▲moribvndvs 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I swear if they are found guilty of price fixing 13 or 14 more times, I’m outta here.

▲minraws 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

To where exactly?

▲internetter an hour ago | parent | next [-]

this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6GWikWlAQA

▲brendoelfrendo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Weaving my own magnetic core memory

▲briffle 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Intel optane, of course!

▲somenameforme 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Don't worry, this time the fine's going to be unprecedented, maybe even a whole week of revenue. That'll show 'em!

▲Woodi 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Fines ?? Why bother ? Immunity on the other hand, that could nicely resolve whole thing ;)

▲M95D 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I swear if they are found guilty of price fixing 13 or 14 more times, I’m outta here.

Same here. I'll probably be so old I'd be dead by then.

▲Woodi 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

New meme discovered ! :))

"more akin to hawks flying in formation – an activity that hawks ordinarily do not do"

Just strange nowhere in article DDR5 is mentioned...

▲ppierre an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The last scope of the ram cartel before the Chinese take the market. (Just my opinion.)

▲tenat10 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Of course they did, in my opinion. They knew exactly what would happen. These people making choices arent morons. SK Hynix, Micron, Samsung all saw the opportunity as long as they are in sync. Then they all sit back raising MSRP with each other as "fake competition".

They could literally reopen manufacturing. But why? They know its free profit through inaction as long as none of them fix consumer DRAM market.

This act of playing dumb and ignorant has never been easier. Getting really old

▲cbg0 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

> They could literally reopen manufacturing.

They "literally" couldn't, there's no idle fab. They could redirect manufacturing to make more consumer RAM instead of HBM but why eat into your profits by doing that? The shareholders won't be happy.

I'm not a fan of this situation but unless there's some WhatsApp texts the investigators will find to point to collusion this is dead in the water. The filing itself is based on a lot of circumstantial evidence.

▲phyzix5761 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

We may be witnessing the popping of the AI bubble. First with Jensen, then with this, and soon with Anthropic and OpenAI's failed IPOs.