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▲ Miner49er 8 hours ago

As a new parent I was surprised that schools have even gotten into a state where iPads or Chromebooks are used regularly in the classroom. I don't understand how kids can learn on them.

iPads especially, they aren't a tool for productive work. Not many people use iPads professionally - they are designed for consuming. If I was in school today I think the distractions they provide would make me a far worse student.

▲ndr42 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I see iPads (class 7 to 13, german school system) very positive. Let me just point out 3 aspects:

My students can really work with book or materials (make a photo, then annotate, cut, copy paste, extend the pages ...)

It added a lot to how I teach (make a podcast, produce videos, simulate, ...)

And as parent: I was more than happy when my son had (for the first time) all learning materials together in one place and not scattered in bags, on the bed, in the school locker...

Let me assure you from personal experience that iPads can (used right) contribute to better education.

▲luqtas 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

the amount of "better education" we would have with kids driving a desktop/tower running a proper desktop (Linux) is immeasurable better than a locked down system like Appleland - tech literacy is literally one of the most discussed/emergent topics, be at the ed. tech field or traditional discussions about pedagogy

[0] probably over hour 600 on pedagogic scientific research and other podcasts talking exclusively about it

▲ndr42 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I agree with the importance of tech literacy and having a Linux-box could be way to achieve this but I hope you will grant me that its possible that in my subjects (Biology and German language/literature) an iPad is of greater use (as a tool outside, in the lab, to produce something cool with language) than a desktop pc. I don't see them as mutual exclusive.

▲luqtas 3 hours ago | parent [-]

which solution iPad has that can't be re-created in Linuxland? given AI, the possibility of doing a clone being quite cheaper than 5 years ago... now the trade-off of teaching and promoting freedom principles Linux surf (the GPL itself is a GREAT example) and allow users to have, against something hostile (whatever you say about Apple hardware and it's ecosystem, it's a net negative company for society) by a monopoly-like tech giant, on my opinion it's non-negotiable! i believe education is one of the most revolutionary (effective) acts we can do and just by excluding the dialogue FOSS can promote, make it instantly a great loss

i still tangle my head till today when proprietary musical software discussions emerge, on HN that's even more surprising, and no Csound, pd is cited even when those have decades old mature and updated codebases, with efficient DSP programmed by academics, all free of price with very permissive licenses - Bitwig costs 399 USD and that's like a lot for a lot of people - that's just a silly example, i'm not even getting into ed. tech software (for educators or kids) ecosystem which sometimes i still have a hard time seeing why someone don't just learn Emacs org-mode for 1 week and stop using N services their school have to pay a subscription... Apple hardware, often deprecated much faster than hardware which run libre software, isn't a great monkey-see-monkey-do example on teaching how important is rights of repair and permacomputing principles

▲KellyCriterion 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

...you know, being "digital native" means today actually being able to use an app on your smartphone and swipe into the correct direction :-D

▲bluefirebrand 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Does any of this lead to better outcomes for the students?

▲chneu 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Screens in general tend to produce less desirable outcomes. Learning goes down, retention, attention, etc.

It doesn't just have to be at school. Screens after school affect learning in school.

▲palata 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have seen tons of university students taking note on their iPad with a pencil. Felt like a legit usage: read the course material on the iPad instead of printing everything, annotate PDFs, take notes.

Back in my days we were printing the slides and annotating (sometimes) them. That was a big waste of paper.

▲rogerrogerr 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, I used an iPad and an Apple Pencil all through college. Lifesaver, I did all my homework on it and skipped paper completely.

Being able to turn in something handwritten, with whatever diagrams and stuff I want to draw, but also with the ability to quickly erase, move, shrink, etc. handwritten text on the fly removes a ton of friction from the learning process for me.

▲Jtarii 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Fascinating to call printing a few hundred pages a "waste of paper" but buying a $1000 device to act as paper is somehow not a waste.

▲jrootabega 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I believe they are working on other functions for the device. Don't quote me on that.

▲everdrive 6 hours ago | parent [-]

They are, but each function takes 16 clicks.

▲palata 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

First, I only said that "back then, printing all that stuff seemed like a waste". I didn't say anything about the iPad.

Second, it's not like modern students wouldn't have an iPad or a laptop, is it? It's not exactly a waste if they use a device they have anyway. Probably some even have an iPad instead of a laptop, so...

▲PaulHoule 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I’ve got mixed feelings about the whole thing. I go out as-a-fox to do all sorts of things such as photography and ritual leadership [1] and tarot readings and I always have a “fox-in-a-box” kit for each activity.

Overall I don’t like it that people in ritual spaces are reading off their phones all the time but, hey, I use the compass to figure out where the quarters are though I do try to mark them early on. I still like having books to read tarot and I have a few that fit in my bag but the really good ones (the spiritually oriented ones, not the ones that give answers like “in the basement of the Alamo”) would take up like 1/4 of the volume of my bag and that’s a lot.

So yeah, I may pack a mass market paperback that explains Smith-Waite imagery and a little materialistic book but I am going to fall back to my iPad if I need Rachel Pollock. It doesn’t help that the physical form of books has gotten worse over time, like the 1st edition of The Spiral Dance that was rebound by my Uni library is great but the later edition trade paperback I have reminds me of why I hate trade paperbacks and it doesn’t help that Starhawk’s practical magic got bulked up with a lot of speculation…. So i keep falling back to “get another book for kindle” because i can pack 10k books on my iPad.

[1] with the unusual OKR of “people can’t tell better than chance that this was Paul’s circle”

▲HomeDeLaPot 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was issued an iPad in high school in like 2014. Even then, they were distracting. We all played games on them. They did have some benefits, though. They ensured that every kid consistently had a small, portable, fairly rugged device to take home so that they could take online quizzes, write essays, do digital homework assignments, do research or reading assignments, scan paper documents, do video assignments, check schedules and announcements, etc., all without requiring parents to spend hundreds of dollars on devices for their kids.

▲theta_d 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Our school district uses Lenovo laptops and Microsoft for everything. My daughter couldn't do her homework yesterday b/c of the Microsoft outage. They use teams for absolutely everything.

▲fusslo 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not a parent and none of my friends are. what's the benefit they're supposed to be providing?

Is it just grading and parental access?

▲t-writescode 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Procreate, Nomad Sculpt, Final Cut, Logic Pro, Garageband and the Affinity Suite would love a word.

▲russellbeattie 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I disagree about the Chromebooks.

This was years ago, but my son went to a middle-school that provided them for all the kids. In class they had a rack of them at the back where they recharged. During a student-teacher conference with my son, she asked him to go grab a Chromebook and pull up an assignment he had done so we could talk about it. He went and grabbed a random computer off the rack, it instantly woke up, he logged in and had his lesson loaded for us to see in literally seconds. I had never seen the Chromebooks in action before and as a techie I was amazed at how smooth it was.

I have no idea how iPads are set up for use in educational environments, but seeing how the Chromebooks were used really impressed me. I also don't know if things have changed in the years since, but they definitely worked great for kids a decade or so ago.

Heh. To tell you how long ago this was, my son is actually a high school teacher himself now! So obviously it wasn't an impediment to his education.

▲thisislife2 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It isn't for learning, it's for spying. Edutech in American schools are very much into surveillance.

▲ghostpepper 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

All it takes is two decades of relentless lobbying by some of the richest companies in history