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▲ aschwtzr a day ago

> It is common to be asked for your CPF for trivial things like purchasing anything on a drugstore

I always point out how insane this is to my Brazilian friends but then I, as a foreigner, have to hand over my passport number instead for the same inane things. I ended up getting a Brazilian eSim and now get spam calls all day.

▲augusto-moura a day ago | parent | next [-]

Why is it insane? You can't do much with the just the CPF number in Brazil, it is not the same as SSN, a CPF is solely for identification.

▲scoot a day ago | parent | next [-]

What’s backwards is an SSN being treated as a secure token. It’s nothing of the sort.

▲aschwtzr a day ago | parent | prev [-]

As I understand it's actually pretty similar to an SSN, i.e it's used for financial and government identification. When it gets used for both trivial and non-trivial things it becomes a huge vector for identity fraud.

My name, birthdate, address and contact info are all widely available online so keeping those government IDs secret is what backstops identity fraud.

▲rescbr a day ago | parent | next [-]

In Brazil companies must have the purchaser's (natural person or company) tax ID for invoicing purposes. Point-of-sale in-person sales transactions don't require invoicing, just receipts, but any other commercial transaction does. Even returning merchandise that was bought with a receipt will require an inbound invoice and a CPF. Thanks tax evaders.

Maybe 30 years ago one could think of their CPF as a number to keep mostly private, but since a large part of the economy now goes through digital channels, a CPF is simply a person identifier rather than something secret.

Nobody trusts CPFs to be a secure identifier anymore. The backstop currently rests on biometric validation on B2C scenarios. For more secure purposes (like contracts) we have digital signatures backed by the gov.br infrastructure, which are widespread but requires acceptance by both parties, and also digital signatures backed by PKI like e-CPF and e-CNPJ that carries full validity by law and are equivalent to notarized signatures. Very few people have e-CPFs though.

▲matheusmoreira a day ago | parent [-]

> also digital signatures backed by PKI like e-CPF and e-CNPJ that carries full validity by law

Until some random judge somewhere decides they don't.

https://portaljuristec.com.br/2026/09/11/juiz-diz-que-assina...

▲augusto-moura a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To be honest, that information is already out there, people can track you by your full name already. The tech analogy is: CPF is just the primary key id in the Brazilian PERSON database, everyone gets one, and you use it on any API a person is needed (literally and figuratively). It should be public by design, just like a piblic crypto key, or a username handle

▲weezing a day ago | parent | prev [-]

So you don't understand. Also not every country is a shithole that knowing even a SSN can result in identity fraud.

▲brabel a day ago | parent | prev [-]

You are never forced to provide your CPF for trivial things, it's completely optional and it's usually used for convenience (easier to get a refund later, for example) and even for people to get some tax discounts in some States. I've never seen anyone showing a passport in Brazil. Though I'm Brazilian, my CPF had been cancelled after more than 10 years I didn't use it (since I haven't lived there in more than 20 years) but that never caused me any inconvenience.

Fun fact: CPF was accepted as identification to vote for President!

▲aschwtzr a day ago | parent | next [-]

Signing up for most things requires a CPF, some offer a passport option but a lot don't. Trying to make a payment online is also sometimes blocked by requiring a CPF. The fact that you can vote with it is just another point for why it shouldn't be treated like an email, those cards look incredibly easy to fake.

▲rescbr a day ago | parent [-]

You can't vote with just a CPF. The cards aren't issued since 2011, and they didn't have a photo or anything like that. At that time, they were considered tax identifiers only. They moved to printing the CPF number on receipt paper when somebody requested it at the post office when they reached 16-18 years old, usually at the same time when one would request their electoral registration or when requesting an employment booklet. It was a rite of passage to the adult life. More recently all newborns receive a CPF number when they are registered on their birth certificate.

In any case, you have to vote with a photo ID document and you have to scan a fingerprint that was previously enrolled in the electoral justice courts or whenever you renew a driver's license or photo ID. By now 88% of the population have their fingerprints collected for electoral purposes.

In 2023 a law was passed to deprecate state-level ID cards and numbers to use a single federal identifier, and since every economically active person in the country already had a tax ID, the government decided to use the same number.

I do think they cause unnecessary friction for non-residents though, because companies could simply accept passport numbers, as authorized by tax law, but I guess nobody gives this a thought.

▲brabel 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Should have mentioned an id with photo was required, the CPF was used if you don’t have your Título de Eleitor number.

▲liamkf a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As a tourist a few years ago I needed to provide a CPF to buy soccer tickets online in Sao Paulo. Intercity busses also required one to book online. Neither accepted anything else like a passport. It was... inconvenient and not optional for those things!

▲iririririr 16 hours ago | parent [-]

they relax this during the f1 weekend. it's kinda of a joke.

already considered a paypal-like service just for foreigners, but then figured criminals would use it instead to evade tax/etc.

▲somewhatgoated a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> never forced to provide your CPF for trivial things

I had to provide my CPF to sign up to a gym.

▲iririririr 16 hours ago | parent [-]

so they can setup recurring charges to your card. it's only for financial transactions. get over it.

▲somewhatgoated 7 hours ago | parent [-]

why would they need my CPF for this? I added my credit card in a completely seperate process.

I'm not salty about it but it's definitely not required here.