Remix.run Logo
▲ Lerc a day ago

I don't think that definition meets what people would consider an invention.

The AK47 is an invention. The inventor "would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example a lawnmower", but people still consider it an invention. Inventions do not have a polarity in the axis of quality of life.

There is no consensus on if GenAI is overall harmful or not. In general people are optimistic but concerned.

The last thing we need is another war on drugs.

I would rate A/B testing on human behaviour, or advertising to be more harmful to the overall human experience than GenAI.

▲soon_to_be_sb a day ago | parent | next [-]

Guns makes lives better if you are the disadvantaged and is at the receiving end of the abuse by the powerful. It makes the playing field even for you, which makes your life better..

▲jagraff 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think that, in the history of the world since guns have been invented, they have mostly been used to the advantage of the powerful, not the powerless.

▲WillAdams 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There's a quote about that by Hillaire Belloc:

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/355429-whatever-happens-we-...

▲roenxi 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That is true of, I think, literally everything. Powerful people get first pick of things and go for higher quality so everything advantages them more than others. Modern powerful people are the most powerful in history thanks to technology.

But guns are an equaliser. If powerful people let situations get too out of hand the personal risk to them is staggering. Guns make political or revenge-based assassinations relatively easy in a way knives do not. Arguably that is a bad thing, although experiments like the US suggest it is good in practice.

▲ragequittah an hour ago | parent | next [-]

To a large portion of the US population things got completely out of hand in several very terrible ways a while ago. I think despite that almost all of us would consider it an absolute tragedy if someone (or a group of people) tried to use a gun to solve problems.

Luigi was an example where a group people cheered. But I suspect most people considered cold blooded murder of a man with a family pretty gross. Not to mention it solved exactly nothing.

▲Joker_vD 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Guns make political or revenge-based assassinations relatively easy in a way knives do not.

Yes, the US has been very well known for its politicians (instead of e.g. middle schoolers) being routinely murdered by the gunners.

Seriously. Even in the places like Brazil, or Sub-Saharan Africa, the "powerful people" rarely get killed by the lynching mob — it's almost always the hired guns sent by some other powerful people. So, no, the general populace very rarely gets to exercise its violence on the elite, historically speaking. Sometimes it happens, but that's an aberration of the normal way of things.

▲soon_to_be_sb 12 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

▲Lerc 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You could indeed argue that. I think that just enforced the argument that the means do not have a moral aspect, and it is the instances where they are used that causes the goodness or badness of the event. How they are used comes from decisions.

You could also steal something and your life might be better for having a thing, possibly more so than how much worse it makes for the person you took it from.

The thing that distinguishes theft from taxation is a societal convention. Adding consensus around how, what, and why things are taken makes it more consentual. Individuals may disagree with having to pay tax, but as a society it is generally agreed upon (even if the methods of agreeing a flawed)

Things need to be an extreme case for guns to come into that process. It implicitly means the goal of reaching consensus has failed and one group is enforcing their will upon the other. That's usually not a good path for the disadvantaged because the powerful by definition have more capacity to enforce their will. Reaching consensus, whilst slower, is the one that supports the disadvantaged better.

▲dzonga 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

yep - guns are a guarantee of liberty.

▲seanw444 21 hours ago | parent [-]

No, courage and community are. Arms are only the vehicle.

▲soon_to_be_sb 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

At last some sanity in this thread.

▲jakeydus 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Damn can't believe Samuel Colt is on HN

▲Joker_vD 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Guns makes lives better if you are the disadvantaged and is at the receiving end of the abuse by the powerful.

...only if you have the gun, you know. Which the disadvantaged people tend not to. In fact, let's generalize your statement a bit: "Tools of power and coercion make lives better if you are the disadvantaged and is at the receiving end of the abuse by the powerful". No, they don't! They do the opposite for very obvious reasons.

▲soon_to_be_sb 11 hours ago | parent [-]

> the disadvantaged people tend not to.

10 powerful men are coming to get your stuff from your home. It is easier to get a gun, than to find other 10 men who can take a hit for you (if you can do that, then you are powerful already).

So it is not that disadvantaged people are drowning in guns, but it is comparatively easier to level the playing field by getting a gun, than doing it by other means. Often impossible.

▲Joker_vD 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> 10 powerful men are coming to get your stuff from your home.

Like the US marshal with his team coming to evict you out of your house and seize your assets? They come armed, and they'll shoot you on the spot if you try to wave your own gun around. Or some Brazilian syndicate sending its goons to make an example out of you? I assure you, they too come armed and without a forenotice.

> it is comparatively easier to level the playing field by getting a gun.

Having a gun very marginally improves your chances of not being shot yourself, especially if you're facing an organized group, especially if it has experience in planned and organized violence.

▲soon_to_be_sb 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

>Like the US marshal with his team coming to evict you out of your house and seize your assets?

No, not at all like that.

I was showing an example where guns makes odds even when you are just against a man "with friends", not the fucking government.

▲ricardobeat 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Only if the ten men carry no guns. Hard to see how such a situation would arise if access is equal.

▲ragequittah an hour ago | parent [-]

But you don't understand I've seen both Commando and John Wick.

In other news the gun in your house is far, far, far more likely to kill you or your loved ones than anyone else. Doubles your odds of being a victim of a homicide. Triples the odds of suicide.

▲soon_to_be_sb 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

>far more likely to kill you or you

Only if you are an idiot.

▲unknownian 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“What about guns and bombs” is not a counter-argument that matters much, because you have to consider context. We can get into the weeds: guns and other weapons were used by various liberation movements to free the world from fascism and other forms of tyranny, and also to kill feral hogs attacking humans. The only real use for AI novel generation is if you’re stuck on a desert island with nothing else to read. But such a scenario is absurdly unrealistic and served better with a library full of real books. Anything an AI novel can do is done better by a human novel, without all the harms. Whereas a gun is the best way to kill a feral hog. A gun might be an anti-invention, but AI art generators are definitely anti-inventions.

▲Lerc 10 hours ago | parent [-]

>“What about guns and bombs” is not a counter-argument that matters much, because you have to consider context. We can get into the weeds: guns and other weapons were used by various liberation movements to free the world from fascism and other forms of tyranny, and also to kill feral hogs attacking humans.

Neither of those contexts argue that they are not inventions. You may argue about their net contribution to society, but you can also do that with AI.

> The only real use for AI novel generation is if you’re stuck on a desert island with nothing else to read.

I find this a strange but common occurrence, an incredible lack of imagination amongst those who seem to claim that imagination is what AI is taking from the world. Is it this scarcity that makes it seem so valuable? If you have an Idea and AI has an idea, you have two ideas, one is not taken from the other. I suspect if I asked a current AI for uses for AI novel generation, it would give me a rather poor list, but it would be a list nonetheless. The quality would be poor because the models are not yet very advanced, not fundamentally because they are AI. I expect it would provide different to the uses I could think up, even if there was overlap, I would not feel like it has taken anything from me. It would have created the same idea that we share.

▲RunSet a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> There is no consensus on if GenAI is overall harmful or not.

At least in part because it does not exist, oligarch marketing notwithstanding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligenc...

You likely are referring to plagiarism slurry.

▲Lerc 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

As others have said I took this to mean generative AI as this is the convention used, and by context was clear here (precisely because AGI has not been claimed by most providers)

>You likely are referring to plagiarism slurry

The option that this generative AI is plagiarism is not supported by the law, not the majority of public opinion. There are many, probably a majority, who wish there to be a form of compensation for having their works trained upon. Quite a large number believe that consent should be required. From what I have experienced, only a few consider this to rise to the level of plagiarism.

To pass off a work as wholly your own would require claiming no generative AI use. While this is done occasionally. Few instances of AI use declare that it has not been used.

▲cestith 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is a mistaking of nomenclature here, but it may be purposeful by the tech oligarchs. Artificial general intelligence is usually abbreviated "AGI". The "GenAI" shorthand is usually meaning "generative AI", but it may have been coined intentionally as a nod to supposed future general intelligence built on the same technology.

▲b00ty4breakfast 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

generative, not general