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▲ streetfighter64 a day ago

I think it should be fine for most people. Hopefully people don't rely on Claude for Ops, and if it's not Ops-related but just regular coding, I can't see why it shouldn't be able to wait a few days. I mean, even if Claude is down for a month, people should have enough competent developers to keep going, just at a slightly slower pace, right?

▲xmcqdpt2 a day ago | parent | next [-]

> Hopefully people don't rely on Claude for Ops, and if it's not Ops-related but just regular coding, I can't see why it shouldn't be able to wait a few days.

IME if anything, people are relying on LLMs for ops more than for development! Devops convinced management that ops isn't actually all that valuable and that devs can just do it. IaC is usually a mess of boring YAML based syntax that no one in their right mind want to learn anyway. Learning Ansible doesn't feel like a transferable skill unlike learning a programming language or paradigm, and in most teams the quality of the IaC stuff (abstraction, code reuse etc.) never mattered much.

As soon as LLMs became good, generating IaC stuff was like the first thing to go full vibe coding, at least for me. I'm proud of my craft, I don't produce bad code with my name on it, I very carefully review all the code changes etc. Devops YAML stuff? Couldn't care less.

▲ a day ago | parent | next [-]
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▲streetfighter64 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Right, perhaps I used the wrong term. I'm referring to sysadmin stuff, like what MS got wrong in their latest outage. "DevOps" or YAML stuff is to actual Ops like Excel is to actual programming.

▲brabel a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I really don’t feel comfortable merging a PR not reviewed by both of our AI reviewers. They catch so many bugs no human could. Seriously changed my view of code since we started using it in earnest. Bugs shall not pass. Without AI it feels like the Wild West again.

▲hi_im_greg_h a day ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t mean to be demeaning to you, but I am asking genuinely.

Why are you still employed? What do you bring to the table if you’ve off loaded so much to AI that you can no longer review a pull request…?

▲neutronicus a day ago | parent | next [-]

Just imagine it’s a static analyzer or something deterministic that you know reduces bug rate

▲olmo23 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

OpenAI just discovered close to 1000 LPE's in Linux, yet nobody is wondering why kernel developers are still employed or what they bring to the table.

What more needs to happen before you accept that human review does not catch all the bugs that AI does?

▲rglullis a day ago | parent [-]

> nobody is wondering why kernel developers are still employed or what they bring to the table.

For now. Wait until we start hearing things like "Mythos reverse-engineered Apple ARM architecture and implemented the whole roadmap of the Asahi Project".

▲popkkksidhd a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ditto. I can do it, and thankfully I’ll say AI mostly catches weird edge cases that often aren’t worth the trouble, but having a 2nd set of eyes has been great for quality.

▲streetfighter64 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This mindset of "I don't trust myself to do it" is a bit (sorry) pathetic. I think one should realize that mistakes happen and to a certain extent, though professionals have lower rates of failure, everything is a tradeoff.

Some people have asked me, aren't you afraid you'll make a mistake if you fix your own car? Well, aren't they afraid their mechanic will make a mistake?

I think it's good to realize that AI (famously) also makes mistakes, and not to infantilize yourself to the level of not feeling "comfortable" trusting your own thinking.

Though, I do see younger people today whipping out their phone calculator to "double check" something like a 75% increase on 120.

▲brabel a day ago | parent [-]

Are you comfortable writing a C application that handles internet traffic on the internet? Well that’s the feeling I have now, if humans were reliable programmers there would be no bugs. AI is already able to pick up most mistakes, by humans and by machines. And I can tell you we all make a lot of mistakes! Be humble and use the tools at your disposal to make that better. This is not infantile, this is what a professional programmer has always done: we had static analysis, type checking, lots of tests. Would you ship code without those? If not, add AI review to your tool belt and you will see it’s probably more valuable than your other tools combined.

▲streetfighter64 a day ago | parent [-]

> Are you comfortable writing a C application that handles internet traffic on the internet?

Yes, of course. Why wouldn't I be?

Everybody makes mistakes, and of course tools to prevent that are good. But what you're saying makes no sense, have you never written code without using type checking or static analysis?

Sometimes good enough is good enough, it's silly to think that a word without bugs is even possible. And besides, using LLMs to get there is a fallacy in itself, because it's a fundamentally non-deterministic system.

▲ricardobayes a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Apologize for strong words, and sorry, nothing personal, but I find this mindset bizarre and even comical. Will we reach a stage where surgeons on the operating table will second-guess their experience and education and refer to an AI assistant?

▲GrayShade a day ago | parent | next [-]

It was technically surgery, but my dentist asked ChatGPT which antibiotic I should take.

Amusingly, I did the same and it told me there's no point in taking more than a single dose in my uncomplicated case (prophylactically).

▲swader999 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In some amount of future time you won't let a human near your injured kid. How else does this play out?

▲johnnyanmac a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Potentially. Probably not in my lifetime, but it's not impossible given how most sci-fi works depict it. You can argue we had a bit of that paradigm shift already with specialized machinery. I'm sure people can still do hand surgeries, but existing tools and sensors increase the precision.

it is a bit sad comparing that to "I can't check for bugs without an AI", though.

▲streetfighter64 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unlike what many programmers like to think, programming is not a skilled work on the level of surgery. And besides, many doctors probably would benefit their patients by having AI assist in their work. This has already been experimentally shown for e.g. medical imaging diagnosis.

▲dutchiesareok a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, definitely. If an android nails your procedure while you doing it manually drops it into the low, say, 60s survival rate, what would you expect? I fully expect all human workers becoming dependent very quickly once the clankers get good enough.

▲mcherm a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I sure hope so!

Imagine we had an AI system that could monitor 38 different patient signals (from blood pressure electrical activity in the brain) during a surgery and give the surgeon warnings whenever these drifted out of the expected range. It feels plausible to me that using such a system might improve surgery outcomes by, say, 20%.

I would prefer to have a surgeon who used the AI assistant rather than a surgeon who chose not to.

▲rambambram a day ago | parent | next [-]

Why should this be an AI system, and not just a software system?

▲Terr_ 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Another distinction along the spectrum might be: Why an LLM system, and not just a conventional deterministic AI expert system?

▲ 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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▲neutronicus a day ago | parent | prev [-]

You would also probably prefer a surgeon who forges ahead without it if the AI is down and you are going to die.

Claude is going to write a banger medical drama about this

▲Topfi a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Was viewing it more through the lens of less technical companies, Excel, Powerpoint, the backbone of traditional office work has become very model dependent in some companies I have seen and those are the owners and fellow employees that tend to struggle more in getting that the local IT guy can't fix this themselves vs developers.

▲iamflimflam1 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe we can actually spend some time reviewing PRs properly… or maybe not.

▲lovasoa a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm sorry, but I forgot how to code. I'm not even sure where the curly braces are on my keyboard anymore.

▲dutchiesareok a day ago | parent | next [-]

You've got "upper management" written all over you.

▲Maken a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Time to switch to Python then.