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▲ neom 17 hours ago

I was on the leadership team of a startup that is now public, during that build something like that happened (almost exactly the same as this NVIDIA situation sans the spy stuff), there were effectively 5 of us involved in what the outcome should be and it basically came down to: me and another guy didn't want to sit on a leadership team with someone who exercised judgement that way, to the point that it was me and the other guy or affair person, so affair person was out, even tho it was very painful for the business. Also, I don't think what I just described is particularly uncommon.

▲threetonesun 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I have worked at a larger company where the CEO did something similar and across the company all anyone could ask was "why would you do something that dumb", which is not a great way for people to feel about the person supposedly leading the company.

▲jeffrallen 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Well, I'm not pro-affair, but I've seen lots of people say "why would you do something that dumb" about lots of executives, doing regular things like changing marketing plans, changing the color of the logo, choosing clearly inferior technology because of the caste of the chief architect, etc.

Dumb is apparently totally normal at that level.

▲spbaar 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Starting a c-level polycule to derisk the s1

▲estearum 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah it's insane how many people are like "bro affairs are totally normal!" (they're not) or "affairs have nothing to do with the business!" (of course they do)

Look at the NVDA stock chart. There you go! That's why affairs are relevant to business! Business is always about trust, and someone who isn't deserving of their own spouse's trust certainly isn't deserving of anyone else's.

▲inanutshellus 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

(Agreeing, with an asterisk.)

Markets care about predictability.

To that end, it's the secret and the reveal of that secret that's the issue for a leader. If a CEO is open about his socially-unacceptable behavior from the beginning, there's no shock to absorb.

▲estearum 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Yep that's an even better point. Though I would say there's a distinction between socially-unacceptable and untrustworthy. Being forthcoming both limits surprise (per your point) and mitigates the trust component of deviance.

▲darkwater 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Yeah it's insane how many people are like "bro affairs are totally normal!" (they're not) or "affairs have nothing to do with the business!" (of course they do)

Why? I'm playing a bit devil's advocate here, but why? Because society think it's bad and a leader should be associated with positive views? Because if they got caught they are not smart enough to be the leader?

Why just this specific thing is to be considered? Why, for example, all the Musk's "extravagances" are not ground for a CEO termination? I'm pretty sure many other CEOs have many of those "extravagances" and manage to keep their position but yet, if you have an affair, you're 100% toasted.

Maybe I don't understand enough the US culture.

▲stetrain 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Why, for example, all the Musk's "extravagances" are not ground for a CEO termination?

This has less to do with the relative social morality of his behavior, and rather that he has more control over the boards of his companies, and his personality represents a larger percentage of the perceived values of his companies.

Meaning that the desire and leverage for shareholders or the board to actually punish him is significantly less. Shareholders would potentially be evaporating trillions in speculative market value that is not backed up by Tesla or SpaceX's actual business fundamentals.

And any shareholders who disagree with his behavior have had plenty of time to leave and take their earnings by now, which means that the remaining shareholders are a self-selecting set who is okay with his behavior as long as it keeps making them money.

▲halfmatthalfcat 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Going through dating, marriage, having children, growing a family, co-parenting children is a massive time and emotional investment (for most people who take it seriously). A large part of, at least Western, society is built on this concept of spousal trust. It's part of the tax code, its part of the legal code (spousal privilege), it's part of our moral fabric, it's a cornerstone of many religions. Breaking that is a huge betrayal of our collective societal moral understanding.

▲robhlt 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Right, and because he was willing to break a commitment that serious it de-values other commitments he's made, including those more directly relevant to the business.

▲kome 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

gosh we need another 68

▲kridsdale1 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What does that mean?

▲kome 15 hours ago | parent [-]

1968

▲throw310822 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

All this coming from a country that elected twice as President a guy that married three times, led a very sexually promiscuous life, including the notorious boasting, and was accused of sexual misbehaviours by almost 30 women. Hilarious.

▲balarjin 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The US system gives voters two options for president. Those options are chosen by parties, and parties make terrible choices.

In 2016, the choice was between Trump and Clinton. Clinton famously excused her husband's infidelity by calling the long list of women who claimed they were assaulted as "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty".

In 2024, the choice was between Trump and Harris. Harris got into politics by being the mistress of a CA governor.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the US presidential election offered a choice between someone who was moral and someone who was as immoral as our existing political class. But that has not happened in my lifetime, and I don't expect that to change.

▲selimthegrim 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Willie Brown and Jerry Brown are not the same person

▲estearum 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Trump's key innovation was shamelessness. It's good that Jensen feels shame here.

▲zdragnar 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One part trustworthiness, one part likeability, one part risk aversion. Some companies have very unlikable CEOs but they are otherwise effective enough to get by.

In this case, Huang hit all three. Changing CEOs is also a good way to get the media coverage over faster, or at least change the narrative in the pubic (and investors) minds.

If it were just an affair, I doubt he would have lost his job. It wasn't, though, and the other circumstances- potentially dodging export controls and abusing a role of power over a subordinate- came with far too much heat, so to speak.

Also, affairs make for much more entertaining gossip than the other items, so it's probably natural that that aspect gets talked about more.

▲estearum 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not true that if you have an affair you're 100% toasted. And CEOs do get ousted for non-affair-like drama all the time.

But anyway a person's character is not cleanly separable between personal and professional life, so yeah affairs add (many) points to the "not to be trusted" column.

> Business is always about trust, and someone who isn't deserving of their own spouse's trust certainly isn't deserving of anyone else's.

▲bluGill 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Why?

It is a conflict of interest same as any other. If there is no conflict of interest then the company won't care. As the CEO of the company every other employee works for him and in turn he has power over them.

Society will not like you (in the US), but nothing more will happen.

▲nemomarx 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Musk controls his companies stock and can't be fired. If that wasn't the case I think his situation would be very different - he's an outlier in most ways. But there's no board to enforce anything on him.

▲neom 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think it often comes down to: do your actions match your words? In the instance above, when said exec joined our leadership team, they were well aware of the standard of conduct we expected, they agreed to them with their words, in fact. With us it was very simple, provided you're not a bigot, what you do on your own time is not our concern. However, what you do within our business is our concern. If you have intimate relations with anyone inside our company, even if consensual, you're no longer on our leadership team. Then, their actions did not match those words, when that is true, trust is gone. In society more generally I think this is true, there are people who we strongly expect their actions and words to match, and there are people who we know that isn't the case, and on some siding scale, we accept it (I didn't say acceptable). For example Fox News or CNN, marketing people, and to some degree apparently Elon Musk (in that people who matter to his success appear to believe they know where they stand with him). Groups typically have criteria/standards, if they change that, it may change the group to varying degrees, and that may be ok or not ok, depending on the group. I don't think this is an American thing or a European thing or anything like that, my understanding is this is a pretty human thing generally?

*Everything on a spectrum.

▲nobody_r_knows 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

▲OvervCW 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You cannot tell from the NVDA stock crash if it's because the CEO had an affair, or because NVIDIA illegally sold GPUs to China and is in huge trouble.

▲GolfPopper 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Or because the current stock value is highly inflated and the bubble is starting to pop.

▲prewett 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I can't see how the stock is highly inflated with a P/E of 20 and expected +100% year over year quarterly results expected in a few days. Normally companies doubling their revenue or profit (not sure which is what the expectation is here) are priced rather higher. A P/E of 20 is what I would expect for Coca-Cola, since it is going to grow at about population rate, since about everyone who wants to drink a Coca-Cola product is already doing so. (KO is currently 28, which I think is high, probably from people rotating out of tech)

▲NetMageSCW 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Feels like the pop would start with companies like OpenAI and Anthropic.

▲kube-system 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

...Or if it's because Chinese intelligence has stolen confidential information from Nvidia.

▲vasac 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Somehow, that wasn't an issue for Eric Schmidt, who was shagging some publicist while he was Google's CEO (and while happily married). Wonder why.

▲_ph_ 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Was she working at Google at that time and reporting directly to Eric Schmidt?

▲kridsdale1 15 hours ago | parent [-]

That’s how it was for Sergei brin.

▲jeffrallen 9 hours ago | parent [-]

And Andy Rubin. At least he got fired though.

▲estearum 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

For one, Schmidt left Google in 2011. Cultural acceptance of fucking subordinates has changed a lot since then.

▲vasac 15 hours ago | parent [-]

Considering that extramarital escapades didn't prevent the current US president from being elected twice - and quite recently at that - I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with cultural acceptance.

▲estearum 15 hours ago | parent [-]

You're "pretty sure" that you can isolate causality in multicausal and overdetermined systems by pointing to a few extreme examples?

I'm jealous!

▲vasac 15 hours ago | parent [-]

I can dumb it down even further for you.

▲estearum 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, please do!

Seems like a real analytical breakthrough that I'd legitimately love to learn more about.

▲kome 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

this is something i am probably too european to understand...

▲crazygringo 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

At the end of the day, it's also just too simplistic.

Humans don't have some kind of overall "morality" or "judgment" setting that applies equally to all areas of life, where a failing in one area translates to failings in other areas.

You can be an amazing CEO and a terrible father. You can have the best judgment in the world around mothering, and abysmal judgment in business. Most importantly, you can be totally trustworthy in the realm of business, yet not in romance.

The idea that there is this binary switch, where someone is either perfectly trustworthy in all contexts, or else you can no longer trust them in any context, is just not an accurate understanding of how real human beings work. It's not supported by modern psychology.

▲MadnessASAP 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The affair isn't the issue, or at least not the only issue, it's who he had the affair with.

At the end of the day Jensen chose to have an affair with a senior officer of a company strongly suspected of bypassing trade restrictions and should have known that it would be a terrible look for Nvidia and himself. Even if he didn't suspect her of being an agent of China, even if he didn't believe the allegations against Mega speed, even if he had no intentions of passing confidential information or aiding in bypassing trade restrictions. He knew it would carry the appearance of all those things.

That is the unforgivable lapse in judgement.

▲dingaling 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"you can be totally trustworthy in the realm of business, yet not in romance."

If you can't adhere to the terms of a voluntarily-entered personal contract with a person to whom you've promised utter faithfulness, why should I believe you'll be trustworthy with regard to some boring, impersonal business contracts?

▲cossray 13 hours ago | parent [-]

It's perfectly possible to be trustworthy in one thing and not the other. If you can't trust a lion with your flock of sheep doesn't mean you can't trust it with a bunch of bananas.

▲kome 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

yes, that exactly the point. i want my colleagues to behave correctly on the job - i don't care if they have 3 boyfriends or cheat on their partner. it's not the point. it can be fun to gossip around the coffee machine, but that's about it. nobody should be fired for having an affair.

▲bluGill 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is more than an affair though. This is an affair with someone he has a business relationship with and thus it becomes the interest to the business. There are many many cases where someone give business favors to the person they are having an affair with.

My company is willing to hire my wife, but she wouldn't be allowed to work for me, nor I her.

▲mrkstu 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If he’d had an affair with his physical therapist absolutely no one would care and he wouldn’t be out- it’s the totality of his actions and his extreme lack of judgement at issue.

▲qsi 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You should be fired if you're having an affair with a spy, or with someone who reports to you.

▲NetMageSCW 15 hours ago | parent [-]

How do you know you aren’t?

▲AnimalMuppet 14 hours ago | parent [-]

By not having an affair with anyone?

▲sensanaty 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're too European to understand infidelity? Must be French!

- Signed, another European

▲kome 14 hours ago | parent [-]

i understand infidelity, i don't understand who would care on the job. also, not french :)

▲Starman_Jones 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

All (or nearly all) fortune 500 company has a rule against sleeping with a subordinate, and it is one of the most common reasons for a CEO to be fired. If all we learned about was the second affair, I still expect he would have been fired. So every single successful actor has arrived at the same conclusion, but you don’t understand why. This is a great opportunity to learn something new.

▲bronson 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You don't understand who on the job would care when it's with a job coworker or job client?

Really?

▲madaxe_again 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If he was French, this would be “oui, et?”

▲ludicrousdispla 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

...must be those long vacations