I agree that this would cause a reckoning in who has oversight over hiring, as it dramatically shifts the balance of power in a different direction than the one companies are currently organized around.

I think for large enough businesses this would incentivize them give the team the person is hiring into much more oversight into the process. I don't think HR is useless, far from it, but incentivizing them to point their efforts to benefit the teams they are hiring for is a plus in my book.

As for the question of new hires getting to vote I think they should be able to vote (past standard probationary period of no more than say 1 month, idk). The company hired them, they should trust their employees with the responsibility of voting. If one person is able to upend a company then they should take some time to reflect on their processes.

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za_creature 17 hours ago | parent [-]

I was picking on hiring because it creates perverse incentives for nepotism. Managers already hire just for the status symbol of having more underlings, imagine what would happen if these underlings get a vote into who gets a performance bonus at the end of the year.

A true democracy would place control over "the process" in the hands of the employees. Reflect on the ramifications of that.

> Do we need more people? Sure, I love working less.

> Do we give everyone a raise? Yay, more money.

> Do we switch to a 4 day work week? Of course!

> Should we abolish all night shifts? Yes, working nights is bad for your health.

A more responsible version of the above would have everyone voting that all responsibility should fall onto Greg, because nobody likes him.

... at least until Greg gets fed up and quits.

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upboundspiral 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Why not eliminate performance bonuses then? The point of hiring is to make a bet on a person you want to be there long term. What's the point of nickel and diming them once you've invested in them?

Don't you think a team that is hiring would want to vet their prospective coworkers? Don't you think they would reject a manager empire building?

Also in regards to "in a true democracy":

In a true democracy, the company releases their internal profitability metrics to all employees, releases the average paycheck per job title, releases the paychecks of the board and CEO. Transparency and accountability solve many of the problems you discussed.

Do people want stability? Of course. Do people want money / not an insane job schedule? Yes, of course.

But I suspect you are underestimating how adaptable people are. If you treat them well, I suspect people are willing to do much more than one might expect.

The problems you present are problems that arise in a low trust environment, where there is low coordination. One of the points of having a transparent and democratic public company is so that there is an increase in trust.

	▲	za_creature 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's a nice thought, but unfortunately disconnected from reality. In a high trust environment we wouldn't need cops. Hell, in a high trust environment we wouldn't even need an army since the diplomats will sort everything out themselves by looking at spreadsheets and playing a biased game of chess. In only takes one thief or murderer to create a need for the state and it only takes one liar or slacker to create a need for an entire efficiency monitoring apparatus within a company. Then there's the age old question of who polices the police and you end up in pretty much the same spot, but instead of making the owners rich you're enriching the "workers representatives". As someone born in the final stages of a communist dictatorship, I can tell you it doesn't work that well in practice. You are underestimating how much some people suck, and how much the people that suck are drawn to power. Valve tried something somewhat-similar with their Cabal system [1] though they have a BDFL and even then, their focus has mostly transitioned from making video games into selling them on others' behalf, suggesting some sort of take over. https://media.steampowered.com/apps/valve/Valve_Handbook_Low...