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▲ Gormo a day ago

Individual participants in the market may abhor competition, but the market itself is made of competition.

Government intervention is the principal mechanism by which powerful participants restrain other partipants' market activity, and insulate themselves from competition.

▲Arainach a day ago | parent [-]

This (being made of competition) has never happened in practice. What happens in practice is that one or a small set of participants become big enough to shut others out through all sorts of tactics including locking suppliers and customers into exclusive contracts, buying out competitors, paying for ads and headlines about customers, etc., etc.

▲Gormo a day ago | parent [-]

> This (being made of competition) has never happened in practice.

So there is no theory/practice distinction here, because there is no applicable theory -- it's all just a description of manifest reality. Markets just are ecosystems of people engaging in value-for-value exchange with each other, and competition just is an inherent characteristic of them that's observable in reality.

> What happens in practice is that one or a small set of participants become big enough to shut others out through all sorts of tactics including locking suppliers and customers into exclusive contracts, buying out competitors, paying for ads and headlines about customers, etc., etc.

Negotiating exclusive contracts is a way of securing long-term business from a customer, motivated by a desire to prevent the customer from defecting to a competitor -- naturally, customers don't sign such agreements unless there's something in it for them.

Buying out competitors is only possible if there are competitors to buy out, which means there aren't barriers to entry, and other firms can target your weaknesses, which you're seeking to compensate for by gaining the market position of a firm that's been successful at doing so. If you can't maintain that position, someone else will fill it -- if they couldn't then the competitor you're acquiring couldn't have done it in the first place.

Paying for ads is a method of trying to win customers' business in a competitive environment. If you didn't have competition, you wouldn't need to advertise.

Everything you're listing here are methods by which firms engage in competition with each other. Every single item on your list is a tactic used by firms because they are in a competitive environment.

▲Arainach a day ago | parent [-]

I would suggest reading some history rather than economic fantasy.

It's not "a competitive environment" just because it's legal to found a company if anticompetitive tactics are allowed.

You can start a railroad, but if the big existing railroads that already have lines running to the cities and factories refuse to let you connect to their service, your company has no hope of surviving.

You can start a factory making paperclips, but if the incumbent has billions of dollars in reserves and can afford to sell at a loss or barely above cost you will never be able to grow and thrive.

You can make a lot more money talking to your competitors and agreeing to fix prices or to each operate in regions that happen to not overlap, eliminating competition.

You can tell customers that if they want to buy product X that they want, they have to buy a bundle that includes Y, meaning that any competitors to Y are bound to fail since customers are already buying that version anyway.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. "History of antitrust" will give you any number of real world examples.

▲Gormo 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> I would suggest reading some history rather than economic fantasy.

So, history is a description of things that have actually happened, i.e. a chronicle of the actual state of the world as it progresses through time. Economics is a discipline that attempts to ascertain the condition of reality. So history and economics will tend to be fairly intertwined and mutually reinforcing.

Rather, it's the attempt to inject normative dogmas built on conflict-oriented adversarial models of human interaction -- which are amply contradicted by both historical and observable current evidence -- that tends toward "fantasy".

> You can start a railroad, but if the big existing railroads that already have lines running to the cities and factories refuse to let you connect to their service, your company has no hope of surviving.

In fact, historically, the incentive structures that motivated railroad construction back when that was the big industrial boom actually led competing railroads to build their own track networks and stations, often in close proximity to each other.

> You can start a factory making paperclips, but if the incumbent has billions of dollars in reserves and can afford to sell at a loss or barely above cost you will never be able to grow and thrive.

So you're describing a scenario in which low barriers to entry and a completely commoditized product make the dominant player's position defensible only by selling at cost, or below, to the point of having to invest additional capital (from its "reserves") just to maintain the status quo and you're trying to use this as an example of a non-competitive market? This is an example of almost perfect competition, where the even the largest players are completely beholden to market pressures.

> You can make a lot more money talking to your competitors and agreeing to fix prices or to each operate in regions that happen to not overlap, eliminating competition.

...which creates a situation in which your competitors now can make a lot more money by being the first to defect from the agreement. This is a classic prisoner's dilemma. And the same dynamics as in the paperclip scenario exist here too: even if collusive players try to fix prices, if they're fixing them too high, new entrants who are not party to their collusion will undercut them.

> You can tell customers that if they want to buy product X that they want, they have to buy a bundle that includes Y, meaning that any competitors to Y are bound to fail since customers are already buying that version anyway.

Except that now you've created a market opportunity for competitors to offer their own a-la-carte version of X, which is now more competitive than yours since customers don't have to buy Y to get X, along with incentivizing competitors to offer their own X-and-Y bundles with better features or price points than yours.

Literally every example you're citing here is theoretical, and the reality of the industries you're describing reflects the opposite of the point you're trying to make. Railroads were numerous and competitive prior to the rise of widespread air travel. Dozens, possibly hundreds, of companies actually make paperclips. Price-fixing cartels are rare and short-lived. Bundled products are commonplace, and competitive both in the bundles themselves and in their constituent parts -- you'll never buy a new car without tires already included, but both cars and tires have numerous manufacturers selling a wide range of products independently of each other.