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▲ Is Opus 5.5 nerfed? Thinking patterns changed on November 3(twitter.com)
116 points by rzk 3 hours ago | 66 comments
▲jarym 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yes. That was the weekend my token usage blew up and used up my weekly allowance in a matter of hours. It was so stark.

After I figured out, like this chap on X, that it wasn't ME, I diversified my model usage and now a lot more work has shifted to Astra/Sol and I'm learning to make my workflows more resistant to the whims of each model.

▲rzk an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It seems to be an A/B testing experiment:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeCode/comments/1xr9x5y/the_ner...

▲DavCreator 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

https://www.ueddit.com/r/ClaudeCode/comments/1xr9x5y/the_ner...

▲benwills 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I noticed Fable decline in quality a couple weeks ago. And I've noticed Opus drop over the last week, even after bumping to a default of Extra High reasoning for almost everything.

Tonight has been maddening with the kinds of absurd mistakes it's repeatedly making. It's so frustrating.

I'm the kind of person that wants something to be consistent and reliable. And Anthropic has been great, except for in this way. Which is enough of a recurring frustration (about every couple months this year) that I genuinely can't wait for other options to catch up. Then I'll be leaving as soon as I can.

I just don't know how long that will be.

▲jdcasale an hour ago | parent [-]

I've been using Fable for a couple months as a relatively independent, long-horizon task executor and it worked well. About two weeks ago it completely stopped working. Like ~85% success rate down to ~10% in my workflows.

Totally possible that I'm just hallucinating/projecting/etc or my workflows somehow changed in terms of difficulty, but it's been kind of shocking.

▲cromka an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I have the same exact experience. Working on one project, brainstorming. It was brilliant in July and August, like a seriously smarter, more experienced version of myself, reading in my mind, one step ahead of me, when pointed out a mistake it would remedy on the spot with the exact brilliant solution.

Now it's like talking to my hungover self, after 3 days bender, who just wanted to be left alone.

▲Roark66 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Same thing for me, but the day Fable got lobotomised Opus 5.5 started actually working pretty well for me.

▲ricardobeat an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I noticed the same, and posted about it three days ago.

Opus is suddenly fumbling basic tool calls and failing to finish tasks even at high, where I had been permanently using it on low effort with success since it came out. It is very frustrating.

My guess is they quantized it and/or reallocated DC capacity to train a new model, this has happened before.

▲PostOnce a minute ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We are on the cusp of an intellectual obesity epidemic.

▲DavCreator 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://XNotMe.com/shanemelaugh/status/2119192075505893695

▲aurad 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've seen big drops in Opus 5.5 (on high/x-high) & Fable. Both in terms of following instructions / workflows execution and overall code quality. Also the token burn-rate increased a lot, I've reached limits of 3 Ultra subscriptions during last week & had to spend 1.5k on API usage during the weekend just to be frustrated with the stupidity of the output.

Weirdly enough, Sonnet quality seems unchanged.

▲jarym a few seconds ago | parent [-]

> & had to spend 1.5k on API usage

You rewarded Anthropic's failure with more dollar spend. I get why you did it but...

▲Madmallard a few seconds ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can we get a self-hostable distilled opus 5.5 yet please?

This company does not deserve to be successful and has no moral high-ground.

▲shikck200 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Token use exploded a week or two ago. I worked for a few hours and hit my 5 hour limit. Did only some simple bug fix. Somethings definitely broken.

This is the #1 thing i HATE with LLMs. They are not predictable like a compiler is.

▲cromka an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It's not LLMs! Its their providers! If you self-hosted, you'd observe the slow down but you'd get same quality.

▲KeplerBoy an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's probably not token usage, but a flexible 5 hour limit. There's a reason why they only state it in percentages.

▲monster_truck 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

They're actually extremely predictable. What you are experiencing is the provider you are entrusting with your time, effort, and money fucking you because they need the capacity to train the next one. So without any real notice or indication other than things vaguely seeming broken in ways everyone seems to be experiencing differently, they're serving up some shitty quant of what you already paid to use.

▲singularity2001 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

Extremely predictable is an exaggeration. I was teaching machine learning and we needed half a dozen lines to make even simple networks deterministic. LLMs are not really predictable, even if we want to, they will sometimes behave almost chaotic depending on the input.

▲monster_truck 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure how you're arriving at "if you use the same seed with the same version of the software on the same hardware with the same drivers you get the same result is an exaggeration", it's wild that you're a teacher and you seemingly do not know this.

▲ghoul2 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Definitely a significant change. I noticed it in just daily work. Quality of work down, mistakes up, repetitive errors in scripts - rare earlier, now a few every session.

▲Retro_Dev 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As one user pointed out:

> I noticed this too as did many others. Had to bump my default reasoning but it’s not the same. Seems to often happen before new model drops

I heard that Qwen4 was dropping some time soon, I wonder if Anthropic is trying to announce a new model immediately after Qwen4 - both for their IPO, and to kill the competition.

▲Gareth321 an hour ago | parent [-]

This has happened to consistently across OpenAI and Anthropic models that I can't believe people are still denying it. Obviously they're silently quantising their models or making other efficiency changes. If they can save 40% RAM and only hurt intelligence by a few percent in their benchmarks, they're going to do that. Unfortunately their benchmarks are obviously not representative of the real world, and these downgrades are very noticeable for people who rely on these models for work.

Of all the reasons to look at local inference, this is the one which pushes me in that direction the most. I want to rely on a model for consistency in my workflows. If I wake up on Monday and suddenly it's refactoring things it built on Friday, that's a huge problem. That makes it unreliable.

▲yfontana an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> I can't believe people are still denying it

Probably because those "nerfs" do not show on sites that track model performance over time. Sometimes Anthropic/OpenAI mess stuff up in their harness, but usually not in the models themselves.

▲xscott 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's easy to imagine they can detect when they're being profiled and route accordingly. Paranoia or not, it's possible.

▲fastball an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I guess the question really is: is this malice (trying to trick people into thinking new model is better by nerfing old one), or is this capacity constraints, where they obviously need to make room in their infra for inference of the new model by shoving the other models into a smaller box?

▲timschmidt an hour ago | parent [-]

Little of column A, little of column B.

▲grey-area an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

These machines are inherently unreliable.

▲xscott 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

With open weights, YOU get to decide when the model changes.

▲beebmam 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Not true at all, there's much more to a model than its weights.

▲digitalPhonix 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Like?

▲phyalow an hour ago | parent [-]

Thinking budgets…

▲digitalPhonix an hour ago | parent [-]

In the context of this question, that's still something you as the user control.

Specifically

> YOU get to decide when the model changes

▲xyzsparetimexyz 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah obviously but you can still control it.

▲f6v an hour ago | parent [-]

You can still control it if you can trivially spin up a node with eight B200s and 2TB of memory to run your Deepseek v4 instance. Nobody on a subsidized plans is doing that. Local models that fit 128GB memory don't come close even to a "nerfed" frontier model.

▲Tepix 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

For Deepseek V4 Flash (not 4.1), you can use two 128GB unified memory boxes and run it at the official weights (mostly 4bit) with lots of context.

That's around 1% of the price of 8x B200. At current prices, it's as low as $6200. At last year's prices that's $3700 or so.

▲Roark66 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Actually Qwen3.8-flash-next comes very close to a "nerfed frontier model" the way I host it locally at 4.75bpw with int8 kv. It is pretty much equivalent to opus 4.6 up to 4.8 on coding. What it lacks is some factual knowledge - this is to be expected, it's a far smaller model. But if you run the kind of coding tasks where you have to spec them in high detail anyway (large very custom environment) this model is very usable.

I run it on a 6*rtx3090 consumer PC (no threadripper etc sadly) with very constrained pcie topology (4 cards sit on 2 lanes basically) and i still get 7k prefill and 50t/s single user or 200t/s 7 users. All at full 262k contexts of course and with 96GB of ram kv cache that means I can easily have 10+ Claude code sessions open with 1-7 generating at any time.

I've been the person that said, before opus 4.6 came out that this AI stuff is absolute crap for programming. Then it suddenly wasn't and I was using it many hours each day.

Local AI was the same. It was all crap. Models like GLM5.3 Flash that are many times larger than that qwen, lots of people are oooing and ahhing over I found way too inferior. Previous DeepSeek V4.1 Flash 0731 was atrocious. They benchmaxed it to hell, but at least it was small.

The current model of same name but release 1017 and double the size is currently the best open source model IMO. It even beats my self hosted Qwen3.8-flash-next.

I've tried hosting that DeepSeek model, but even adding another rtx3090 for a total of 7 cards and my 192gb of ram bought when it cost under $1000 I get only about 25t/s decode and few hundred prefill. That is far too slow for me to use.

But, I believe once this pyramid scheme of circular financing finally bursts there will be a glut of hardware on the market where people like me will be able to buy equipment to run 750B models like we now run 120B.

▲DeSinc 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I've been very impressed by it and recommended it to everyone. 32gb ram, 12gb 3080ti, and I run 3.8 flash next coder (half the experts ripped out, leaving in coding) int8 kv 128k context at 35-55tk/s and I agree with the opus comparison; I personally say 4.7 is what it seems like the most.

Truly insane times

▲Sphax 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Just curious, did you put all these cards in a server or desktop case ? and what kind of motherboard ?

Also, how much power does that consume at full tilt ?

▲lukax an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I guess it's just capacity problems. They probably have a fixed amount of compute and they need to make space for new models that will be released. So they quantize existing models e.g. in half so that can use 50% of current capacity for new models. They have such massive scale that you just cannot dynamically get that amount of new compute online so they need to work with what they have. No provider has thousands of GPUs idle.

▲terminalcommand 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am using Opus 5.5 high almost exclusively. I definitely felt this and looked for nerfing watch sites. It felt like downgrading to the old version of deepseek. Things have improved a bit now.

▲jonathanlydall 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Anecdotal, but I tend to get by with medium thinking on Opus and I noticed that as of sometime last week it really did feel like it had become noticeably slower to think about things.

I wouldn't say I've especially noticed its effectiveness having been reduced, it's just slower.

▲Asmod4n 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hm, I’ve seen a degradation of 5.5 yesterday. I’ve had a session running for around 50 days and it just started to generate garbage and ignored all rules. A fresh one feels the same as always

▲fractalf 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

5.5 is useless below max effort, just frustrating and plain old wrong

▲xbmcuser an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From what I understand they are picking and choosing who is running the latest models. So nerfed yes but for you not for everyone

▲throwaw12 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

LLMs are such a great business, they are non-deterministic, hence you can do whatever you want, because customers can't do anything about it:

* nerf them based on supply and demand, when you have a high demand, nerf it, but keep charging same price.

* do you want to show revenue growth to investors? increase thinking tokens, customers will keep paying, because again, this is non-deterministic system, sometimes it thinks more

* do you want to increase profits? start serving 4-bit, 5-bit quantizations and keep charging same price

* want even more? publish a paper "Advanced Auto Super Smart Prompt Router - AASSPiRation", and start routing requests to Qwen3.8-27B or GemmaE2B from time to time on the edge

* Not enough? introduce "Complex Chained Workflows - CCW" in your coding harness, which spawns multiple deterministic workflows (which you can't stop or control) and they will use Haiku to write the code, then use Opus 5.5 high to verify the code (which is obviously wrong) and Opus 5.5 produces recommendations on how to fix the code, delegates to Haiku, which again fails writing proper code, and keep doing it 5-6 times, you made lots and lots of money (don't forget, all should run in parallel, to pick one best result among 10 outputs).

▲peri-cl an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Eagerly awaiting Artificial Analysis to redo their Anthropic benchmarks and kick it down 15-20 index points, in the interests of accuracy. Those guys love accuracy. They moved Heaven and Earth to kick Kimi off the #2 spot, out of their deep, abiding passion for having the most accurate benchmarks in the industry.

I have no doubt they will ensure their users get an accurate picture of Opus 5.5 within hours.

▲MallocVoidstar 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

If Anthropic are doing A/B testing it almost certainly only affects subscription users, not API users. Every benchmark I know of uses the API.

▲dstu a few seconds ago | parent [-]

[delayed]

▲hugodan 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

all good as long as it keeps killing young girls in the middle east

▲etcetcetcetceta 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I suppose they can achieve a benchmark then nerf the model to save compute once they've got the headline.

▲0x70dd 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ok, I'm not going crazy then. Noticed that it is slower and results were of a lower quality.

▲igleria an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

as a user I believe it: they are probably reducing assigned compute to prepare to offer new models.

That would be the less bad reason.

▲PUSH_AX an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fable 5.1 quality took a significant dive for me last week. I'm not imagining it.

▲tammyselvi 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

not as bad as sol 6.1. im getting better results out of glm 5.3

▲cromka an hour ago | parent [-]

I was down voted into oblivion when I said that 3 weeks ago. Both Codex and Claude are absolutely nothing compared to what it was.

▲sunaookami 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's just a new summarizer, the model and performance itself is unchanged.

▲kolinko 2 hours ago | parent [-]

+1, this tells nothing about the quality. Or even whether this is an upgrade or downgrade.

▲listedb 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's dumbing down a little bit but I don't think its a lot worse. I think the change in display adds to the feel

▲perks_12 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Welcome to the world of post-IPO AI. Now the 20% growth needs to come somewhere, and profitability would be a nice starter.

▲hebelehubele 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They're preparing to release a new model, so it has to look better than the current one.

▲davidd_1004 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seems fine to me

▲Giorgi 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, I noticed it too, dumbing down continues, there goes their IPO.

▲tsukikage an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

LiveNerf suggests not.

https://github.com/ninjahawk/livenerf

▲overflowy an hour ago | parent [-]

My paranoia tells me they A/B test users which means consistent benchmarks go through the high performance pipeline while regular requests fall back to the quantized / experimental / low cost version. I can see the main reason being the oldest one in the book, which is making more money.

▲musha68k an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It could also be a regional effect where systems are under higher load and hence dynamically routing to / provisioning lower precision instances; or some other factor where one is affected whereas someone else isn't.

▲eithed 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not paranoia and would align with https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeCode/comments/1xr9x5y/the_ner...

I wonder as well whether would this pop up on nerfbench