Let's not move the goalposts, the word in question is "performant".

Though even with memory it's not as clear as you assume in the context (which is about browser-based apps). Singular C/Zig/Rust program will surely be more economical than a singular in-browser app due to browser itself having a huge footprint. But what if said user has that browser open all the time anyway as probably most users do? What if there are more than one GUI-rich app, and with browser they share most of the overhead? PLs which allow low-level optimizations offer great opportunities, no arguing. But never say "never" until you know what exact problem yiu have to deal with.

▲ tcfhgj 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You cannot separate performance from memory usage. Usually less memory usage for apps comes at the cost of performance and vice versa.

And more memory usage can slow down the whole system, because the system may need to swap and compress memory.

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broken-kebab 18 hours ago | parent [-]

To be direct: this is utter nonsence. Memory usage and performance are different targets of optimization, which often at odds with each other.

	▲	egeozcan 14 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I'm not sure you're disagreeing.

▲ redox99 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Let's not move the goalposts, the word in question is "performant".

Even though the word performance was used by a parent comment, I think they used it as an umbrella term. The article and most of the talk around rust discord is primarily about the memory. And JVM is probably the worst runtime you could pick if you care about memory usage.

▲ broken-kebab 17 hours ago | parent [-]

Assuming this would make this comment less reasonable though. Optimization for memory usage is distinct from optimization for performance in our craft. And it's pretty basic thing.

▲ doodlesdev 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Rust-based Discord achieves both, though... You can absolutely get an application to run faster while using less memory, given there's enough low-hanging fruit (and with today's software, there certainly is...).

If you're optimizing sorting algorithms, video decoding or compression software, then that's another story, because using more memory can trade time complexity for space complexity in your algorithm (i.e. Merge Sort vs Insertion Sort).

▲ broken-kebab 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Good, finally! Yet this branch started with the claim which isn't about Discord at all.

	▲	doodlesdev 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		This is a thread on the post about Discord and we're discussing the original statement below: `> All the performance and other arguments are just not true, a well build webapp is often more performant than a native app especially for long scroll lists not even to mention accessibilty, extensions and more.` To which I think Discord's Rust rewrite is actually a great counter example. Epic Games's new launcher could've been too, but it's just vibe slop, unfortunately, not real engineering work. The announced performance and memory usage also shows that using a browser tab (reducing overhead for separate browser processes) is still not enough to save memory compared to a native application, as this new Discord rewrite, with multiple accounts logged in, uses about the same memory as an empty new Chromium tab.

▲ CyberDildonics 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

more economical

Not sure what this means.

What if there are more than one GUI-rich app, and with browser they share most of the overhead?

Those are called web pages. I don't know what the rest of this comment is trying to say. When a chat room program takes 4GB of memory, there will be optimizations literally everywhere. Everything will work from looking the current javascript to switching languages.

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broken-kebab 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Your "4GB of memory" for "chat room program" is obvious reference to Discord in its Electron-based incarnation. Which certainly proves you sincerely don't understand what that means, and what the rest of my comment is about. It could be my fault, but may I suggest you first read the comment to which mine is answering, just to get the whole picture, so to speak? Missing context may be the root of misunderstanding here because I didn't write it about Discord actually. And even about Electron.

	▲	CyberDildonics 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		If you're just talking about being on of the 'java can be faster than native programs' people, then show me a java program and I will show you how to make a faster, more consistent, lower memory native program.