You are confusing why they choose MIT (to further adoption by other existing distributions and allow other developers to reuse pieces) and how it is being used (to build cheap distributions on it slapping a different name on front), they understand well the implications as anyone else.

> I appreciate all of the hard work that's gone into Asahi linux

Actually no, you don't seem to. Regardless of the license, remind yourself that they didn't lose ownership of what they did. They can still be disgusted at how people are building lazy derivatives just because they wanted to share what they did with a different kind of developers. I know I would.

Frankly, I'm not sure if permissive licenses have a future. No one wants dev marketeer to save tokens reusing their work.

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zalo 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> they choose MIT (to further adoption by other existing distributions and allow other developers to reuse pieces) and how it is being used (to build cheap distributions on it slapping a different name on front)

The former and latter are nearly equivalent to both licenses AND everyone can still make cheap distributions with a different name slapped on top.

They only chose GPL because Omarchy is MIT and they _hate_ Omarchy.

> Frankly, I'm not sure if permissive licenses have a future. No one wants dev marketeer to save tokens reusing their work.

On the contrary, the AI shift means that devs who are concerned about enforcing the purity of their community and stymieing marketeers will be vastly outnumbered by people who just want to “move fast and fix things” (which is essentially what Omarchy represents)

	▲	Copenjin 17 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> and they _hate_ Omarchy. Could be, reading what their fanboys write on X they could have more than a few reasons. In addition to details I'm not aware of related to how the fork has been developed. > and stymieing marketeers will be vastly outnumbered by people who just want to “move fast and fix things” These can be easily conflated in a single category of people, I don't see why the first group should not be able to keep prompting a model for days or months. Or did we already invent the definition of Real Prompter like someone did for Real Programmers?

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orangecat 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They can still be disgusted at how people are building lazy derivatives

If you're disgusted at the prospect of people you don't like using and extending your code, then open source is not for you.

	▲	Copenjin 17 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Did I write "I don't like"? The "lazy" is the problem, but then yes, I'm free to think that I don't want specific people to use stuff that required effort from my side (see the classic discussion of OSS being user by corporations without giving back anything, I can understand those that feel resentment).

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habitue 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I do genuinely appreciate the hard work, and I don't appreciate being told what I appreciate.

Regardless, I think you're also confused.

"How it is being used ... to build cheap distributions on it slapping a different name on front"

I'm sorry but this is literally exactly the thing GPL is designed to allow. I don't understand why this is so confusing.

Copyleft is designed to prevent people from improving on the code and then keeping their changes secret and closed source. That's not what Omarchy or anyone else is doing, they're all already sharing their changes.

Let's walk through it from the Asahi linux perspective so we're all on the same page:

- Asahi makes software licensed MIT

- Omarchy takes that software, slops the AI-iest slop on top.

- Omarchy releases the source code of those changes to Omarchy's users.

- Asahi is mad because they hate AI, but they have no recourse unless Omarchy violates their trademark.

Now compare how it works under GPL:

- Asahi makes software licensed GPL

- Omarchy takes that software, slops the AI-iest slop on top.

- Omarchy releases the source code of those changes to Omarchy's users.

- Asahi is mad because they hate AI, but they have no recourse unless Omarchy violates their trademark.

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Copenjin 17 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm well aware of the content of GPL and that it doesn't stop derivative software from being created but please don't phrase it as " this is literally exactly the thing GPL is designed to allow!!", it makes it sound like a desired outcome. Pretty sure that Stallman would find pretty pathetic the kind of derivative I've described.

The right way to handle this would have been for Omarchy to give something back in another form (monetary probably) since Asahi doesn't want their Gen-AI code. Why? Because that's what a good neighbor does with upstream and because frankly I expect they will need more of the Asahi code in the future (if they don't decide to just ask Claude to get it, as Asahi seem to imply they already did). It seems to me that their shitty "community" is just insulting the Asahi people forgetting that without them they wouldn't be running Linux on their Macs.

The only thing that the move to GPL does is forcing them to adopt a compatible license if they need to take more code in the future, but considering the Omarchy is a distribution with no commercial/closed-source aspirations. Should have been GPL since the beginning.

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Gabriel54 16 hours ago | parent [-]

> Because that's what a good neighbor does with upstream…

I’m jumping in here but I really don’t understand this perspective. The license doesn’t say that downstream must be a good neighbor. In fact it explicitly avoids any restrictions on how downstream code is used. If you’re not happy with that then the GPL is not the right license. Holding others up to an unwritten standard (which is inherently not enforceable) is a recipe for disappointment.

	▲	Copenjin 16 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> is a recipe for disappointment. True, but like in a working society, many things are being done even if not explicitly requested by some regulation because it's obvious that they help improving the society for everyone. For me it's pretty automatic, I have money for or coming in thanks to my project? The first thing I will do is giving back to the dependencies that made my project possible, I don't even need to think about it too hard. And let me add also this, upstream decided that for whatever reason they don't want code generated by AI? It's their project, they are free to decide to follow this route, who cares. Pretty pathetic to whine about it on X, though.

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theodric 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> the AI-iest slop

Omarchy devs with LLM support have implemented this functionality not available on Asahi:

- TouchID

- M3 GPU

- DisplayPort over USB-C

- demoed DisplayPort over Thunderbolt (WIP)

- deep sleep (0.05W discharge)

- MacBook Neo support

- demoed M4 Pro/mini support (WIP)

If that's slop, then please, sir, I'd like some more slop.

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Copenjin 5 hours ago | parent [-]

What do you think that list proves? Something more than the LLM being a multiplier of man hours? Have you checked the code or waited to see the severity of bugs? Do you even know which kind of issues Asahi dealt with in the past like the ones related to the speakers that the "dev with an LLM" or the LLM itself would have never guessed existed?

It's ok, here, read the speakers section: https://asahilinux.org/2024/01/fedora-asahi-new/

And also, I see many people forgetting that someone has been accused of taking code from unreleased branches for new features and adding it to the rest as its own.

I'm definitely not anti-genAI since that allows me to focus only on the less boring things but man, some people sound like they never wrote a line of code in their life, zero respect for years of work of someone else. They could have tried building that form scratch... and instead... I wonder why.

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theodric 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> some people

I guess you're talking about me

> sound like they never wrote a line of code in their life

I see. Well, I have, quite a few.

> zero respect for years of work of someone else

Unclear how "respect" is supposed to manifest in this case. Not contributing to open source? Not forking or extending open source?

> They could have tried building that form scratch... and instead... I wonder why.

They could have started from zero, reading the Apple specs and probing the hardware to discover how it works, rather than extending existing code? Why would anyone do that? Surely the goal is to ship software, not chase purity.

	▲	Copenjin an hour ago \| parent [-]
		No, I'm not talking about you, whoever has really wrote code with at least a modicum of complexity will respect the work of others that did the same. > Not contributing to open source? Not forking or extending open source? What? Are you really asking? You keep ignoring that Asahi pointed out some dishonest behavior like integrating parts of code from unreleased branches as their own and so on. > They could have started from zero, reading the Apple specs and probing the hardware to discover how it works, rather than extending existing code? Why would anyone do that? Surely the goal is to ship software, not chase purity. There are no apple specs. The hypothetic "could" means nothing. > "Why would anyone do that?" They wouldn't. Because they are not capable of doing it. > Surely the goal is to ship software, not chase purity. Ok, so they take what they want and are free to criticize those who gifted them the source like idiots. No decency. The concept above was quite simple: You take code from someone? In addition to following the license also show some appreciations for those that saved you months if not years of development and bug fixing. Anyway, I'm really convinced that licenses like MIT or BSD have no future or maybe the opensource movement in general, at least for software that was written by humans and not some dumb poser with a model in a weekend. I'm starting to think that the problem here is just that you don't like the Asahi people for that stupid shit that you americans (or considering the timezone other nationalities infected with the same stupid ideas or simplified view of the world) call "politics"...