| ▲ | kalcode 10 hours ago |
| This isn't like COBOL. Floppy disc were never reliable. They should've been phased out a long time ago Magnetic degradation, wear from read/write heads, and environmental sensitivity mean disks have a natural expiration date and it's not long. And they are also easy to corrupt from all kinds of magnetic sources around us. I get other stuff, even DOS like system. Safety critical software/hardware that was battle tested makes sense. Not floppy. Sometime it's just bureaucracy. |
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| ▲ | a1o 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| My floppies outlived many many models of usb thumb drives. I can still read floppies I recorded 30 years ago. |
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| ▲ | spullara 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| my 1980s 5.25" disks still work. i'm surprised but they have laster a long time. |
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| ▲ | klodolph 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I used to do floppy disk data recovery as a service for students at college. Roughly speaking, we helped one student out every three hours, out of 2,500 students, during busy hours. Based on the rates and hours, I think it would come out to something like 25% of the student body, each year, coming to us with a data loss incident involving floppy disks. YMMV. I’m sure a lot of people were shoving these things into backpacks, and this was post-2000, so the quality of disks for sale was poorer than it was in the 90s and 80s. I’ve also (since then, for myself) repaired drives. The drives fail because they’re mechanical and have motors, and anything that moves or has a motor in it will need some kind of service. Servicing a floppy drive requires specialized equipment which is hard to find (or requires a lot of patience—it’s possible to repair a floppy drive with just a screwdriver, but it’s not fun; guess how I know?) | | | |
| ▲ | hermitdev 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | 3.5" floppies were still common while I was in college. I have distinct memories of copying a project to a floppy in my dorm room, popping the disk out, walking next door (literally next door in the dorms, not even going outside up or down stairs or anything), popping the disk into a team member's PC and the project being gone. We laughed it off and chucked the disk in the trash and got another. Project wasn't lost-lost since I had a copy on my hard disk. This was also the era of the 100MB Zip Drives, which I also had in my PC and thankfully all of our lab PCs had, too. That's what I normally used for all of my day-to-day file transfers of any real import. I still have my zip disks, but I seem to have lost my zip drive, so no idea if the disks still have any data on them. | | |
| ▲ | filchermcurr 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Wow, it's crazy how experiences differ! I've never encountered anything more unreliable than zip disks. Even burned CDs lost to the dreaded buffer couldn't compete with the failure rate of those things. Past me wishes I had your luck with them, they were super cool. | |
| ▲ | dam_jackalopes 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I was on a school paper in high school and was taking photos on a "digital" camera that wrote to 3.5" floppies. Some of them are still with the (printed) copies of my articles I kept. I'll have to see if they survived. This is probably my "I'm getting old" moment. Good lord. | | | |
| ▲ | throwaway2037 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You had personal PCs but no network in a dorm? | |
| ▲ | deepsun 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We used to copy files three times, better onto three separate floppies | |
| ▲ | sumtechguy 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah at the time. You would get the whole range of good/bad disks. Sometimes even between computers. May work just fine on one computer and not the next. It was not common but it wasnt totally rare either. Just sometimes would catch out out at silly times. That they are still used in a critical infra item is a bit surprising. Getting new stock would be a major hassle. | |
| ▲ | spullara 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I said this in a parallel thread but 3.5" disks were much less reliable for me even in the 80s with the Amiga. |
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| ▲ | jasomill 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sure, but what are the odds they're using these rather than HD 3.5" disks purchased from whatever new old stock they've been able to source over the past 20-odd years? | |
| ▲ | mplewis 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | and how many bits have rotted on those? | | |
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| ▲ | carbon0234 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > were never reliable They absolutely mog the cancerous garbage that is NAND flash memory in terms of data retention. The fact that you can pick an 1980s floppy from the junk room and read it is telling. Meanwhile your average TLC SSD will probably get wiped in 3 years if kept in the drawer, and a QLC will get wiped in 1 year. Reliability wise floppies are also better: flash memory leaks electrons naturally and gets shredded by radiation events, with temperaure accelerating these processes. Meanwhile magnetic disks are not altered by any normal magnetic field you could produce at home. |
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| ▲ | throwaway2037 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That is the first I ever saw the term "mog" used outside of bodybuiy/looksmaxxing. More info here: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mog | |
| ▲ | arcfour 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is just flatly false. You're comparing a worst case SSD with maybe 10% of its writes left to an extremely lucky floppy disk that hasn't died to binder hydrolysis, mold and fungal growth, warping or demagnetization. And you also completely made up that you couldn't generate a strong enough magnetic field at home to corrupt one - you absolutely could especially since rare earth magnets are not that uncommon and are more than enough to kill a floppy. | |
| ▲ | spankalee 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "mog"? | | |
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| ▲ | throwaway2037 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What would you have suggested in the 1980s instead of a floppy disk? And today? |
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| ▲ | LastTrain an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If you have enough floppy disks they are a perfectly reliable solution. |
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| ▲ | Crunchified 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'd learned long ago to treat floppies like Mission Impossible tape reels, and just assume the data would self-destruct in about 5 seconds. |
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| ▲ | tw04 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| And yet, there’s a reason we use magnetic tape for long term archive and it’s not because usb drives are reliable. Without having details on the specific floppy disks in question there’s no way you can authoritatively say they are unreliable. They absolutely produced floppy disks that were far more reliable than the ones sourced from the cheapest vendor possible some of us used in school back in the day. Ignoring the fact I’m guessing the disks in question aren’t having to survive life in a students backpack. |
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| ▲ | jiggawatts 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I had a customer with a slightly dusty office and we simply gave up on tape drives as a backup storage medium because we were replacing the drives or tapes on a monthly basis. We switched them over to external USB enclosures with cheap SATA drives in them and never looked back. | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > And yet, there’s a reason we use magnetic tape for long term archive Is it because "long-term archival" strategies aren't updated frequently? | | |
| ▲ | monocasa 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's because magnetic storage where the drive bearings are separated from the media can be expected to sit on properly temperature controlled shelf for 50 years with next to no bit rot, in contrast to flash. |
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| ▲ | y1n0 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > disks have a natural expiration date and it's not long You really have no idea what you are talking about. It's normal for floppies, especially 3.5" to last decades just sitting on a shelf. I've got 5.25" floppies from 1984, and they boot just fine on my old apple //e. 42 years in my parent's dank midwest basement. |
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