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▲ tcdent 3 hours ago

> It's been a huge learning curve.

I have been doing this professionally for over twenty years, and I still learn something every day. Over the past couple years, with AI augmentation, I learn even more, move faster and go deeper into the systems that I work on.

A CS degree was never going to provide you with all of the tools that you need for a successful career. It provided you with the basics to get your foot in the door.

AI is not replacing you or an education. AI is raising the bar of what you can comprehend and retain. From someone who is technically minded (and self-taught), all I have ever wanted is to keep learning.

▲pantsforbirds 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> AI is not replacing you or an education. AI is raising the bar of what you can comprehend and retain. From someone who is technically minded (and self-taught), all I have ever wanted is to keep learning.

AI is, in my opinion, absolutely murdering the junior dev market. It's now much more efficient to pay for a senior or staff engineer and set them up with a subscription to claude or codex. I think things are going to remain fine for senior+ engineers, but I genuinely don't know what advice I'd give to graduating devs at this time.

▲gim89 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I agree with the caveat that a lot of "seniors" (in name only) will be discarded as well. Title inflation finally comes back go bite people.

▲znpy an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It's now much more efficient to pay for a senior or staff engineer and set them up with a subscription to claude or codex.

this has been happening for years though. just think of cloud computing and things like kubernetes: a single person or a small team can handle the amount of computer that twenty years ago required a full team of sysadmins, a facility (either on premise or datacenter space), huge (upfront!) capital expenditure and ongoing costs (connectivity and power).

same goes for web frameworks (think rails and similar)

▲slowin 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Being a senior engineer doesn't really have anything to do with how long you've been developing. I've met amazing 21 year old developers who can out code people doing this for 20+ years in their sleep. I would say one of the reasons "seniors" are so much better with AI is because they have CS fundamentals. They know what to ask, they know systems design, they know what ACID is, they understand race conditions...

AI + CS allows you to develop with leverage I've never seen before.

▲joshheitzman 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's notable that you said "out code" not "out engineer".

▲Capricorn2481 an hour ago | parent [-]

If you're desperate to discredit the substance of the comment with pedantic word games, sure. What they are describing sounds like engineering to me.

▲tcdent 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_unknown_unknowns

▲znpy 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I've met amazing 21 year old developers who can out code people doing this for 20+ years in their sleep.

yeah that's only true when you compare the top 10% of the 21-years-olds with the bottom 10% of the 51-years-old.

it's technically true but also bs.

(the "10" in "10%" is a made up number, but the point stands)

▲mistrial9 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> who can out code people doing this for 20+ years

zero context for the work, so .. javascript?

▲goalieca 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah. This is absolutely not the case when I worked on control systems, cryptography, or anything else that isn’t a CRUD saas.

▲JaumeGreen 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> A CS degree was never going to provide you with all of the tools that you need for a successful career. It provided you with the basics to get your foot in the door.

Yes and no.

I concur that it was never about the tools, although I've seen plenty of people advocating it had a more "practical" approach, using the same tools as companies use, and in the same way.

On the other hand it's not only about the basics.

In there you can go at depth in aspects that you will have to fight to use, like proper engineering practices, and might only be vital on the later stages of your career. And I feel that those learnings, plus the possibility of acquiring a breadth of knowledge that is hardly possible otherwise, is what gives CS graduates a leg up to other practitioners of the art of software development.

YMMV and a leg up can be easily overtaken, yes.

▲tartoran 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder how you'd do without your AI augmentation if you find yourself not being able to use it for whatever reason. I wonder what you retained when the AI is not working... or with a very expensive augmentation that wants more cut from your pay...

▲10111001 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> I wonder how you'd do without your AI augmentation if you find yourself not being able to use it for whatever reason. I wonder what you retained when the AI is not working... or with a very expensive augmentation that wants more cut from your pay...

Realistically, "AI is not working" is probably not a realistic scenario. He'll just stop working, just like if the network goes down.

The real risk of AI augmentation is to your value as an employee. Maybe the augmentation makes you feel and perform like Iron Man, but if the suit is doing the heavy lifting, and some cheaper guy could wear it and do pretty well, how are you going to keep that fat paycheck? It's not like any of us have tenure.

▲okdood64 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> A CS degree was never going to provide you with all of the tools that you need for a successful career. It provided you with the basics to get your foot in the door.

+1

Aside from teaching me the _basics_ of programming and discrete mathematics, it did not help my career. I, in-fact (due to poor GPA), did not even have a SWE role out of school and had to find my own way here into a successful career. (I struggled even with LeetCode easys coming out of college) I attribute it to creating opportunities for luck (networking) and an appetite for life-long learning (which came well after college).

▲dieselgate 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Basically true for all degrees. I studied non-cs engineering before getting into coding and feel it often. At times have felt “should have stuck more with mech e where jobs are more stable and the tech moves slower” but know it’s kind of a fallacy.

▲coldtea an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>I have been doing this professionally for over twenty years, and I still learn something every day. Over the past couple years, with AI augmentation, I learn even more, move faster and go deeper into the systems that I work on.

Too bad a big percentage wont get to do that professionally anymore due to AI.

>AI is not replacing you or an education. AI is raising the bar of what you can comprehend and retain.

No, it also makes the job market hell and cuts down on positions, on top of an already squeezed pre-AI environment.

And that's if one is still OK with the fact that coding work (something many of us enjoyed in itself) turned into "project manager for AIs".

▲aravpanwar an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

AI has been a godsend to my learning especially in regards with CS and Mathematics. It does not get tired of explaining me not only the 'what' but also 'why' and 'how'. Plus lots of learning rabbit holes.

I was never a good student (not academically inclined at all) and I have learnt more with AI in past 6 months than the engineering degree taught me.

▲leecommamichael an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Retain? You're full of it. You can't possibly make that argument. There's absolutely no data to support it.

▲yodsanklai 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> AI is not replacing you or an education

I do learn every day thanks to AI, I agree with that part. But I'm increasingly convinced that AI is likely to replace either me or some of my teammates in the near future.

In the last year, half of my team has been laid off (or left) already and won't be replaced, and we don't see any drop in productivity and the tools are getting better by the day. We need experts to drive all this, but not as many people as before.

▲js8 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Companies that let SW engineers go because of productivity improvements are being stupid. These people will go and build new products, and will compete with your company.

▲yodsanklai an hour ago | parent | next [-]

If your company is a big corporation, I don't think they need to worry about the file and rank SWEs. I know that I'm going to compete with Google, Meta or Microsoft. But stupid or not, that's what they're doing at the moment.

▲MentalM an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

▲bebrws 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Other than keeping up to date with how to best use AI/harnesses what else would be most important to stay on top of for retaining a software engineering job these days? Also AI seems generic to me. Could I bother you for a more detailed breakdown on the most important topics/skills you would consider necessary for a software engineer to be knowledgeable of?

▲azaras 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> AI is not replacing you or an education.

AI is the tractor in The Grapes of Wrath, and you’re the one driving it.

▲webdood90 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> all I have ever wanted is to keep learning

Good for you! Many people just want to be able to pay their bills.

Your post is entirely too dismissive of the chaos this new technology is introducing.

▲tcdent 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Harsh opinion: but if you just want to pay the bills this is not for you. Software engineering is a career, not a job.

Far too many people focus on passing an interview and then let legal protections keep their position, all while draining resources that could have been better allocated to someone who is actually passionate. They saw my generation do reasonably well and came for the paycheck. I got into this because there were very few people who could rise to the occasion of problem solving that the industry needed. I did not walk into the room with all of the skills or an idealized salary, I walked into the room with a mentality.

Perhaps the "chaos" being introduced is simply a long overdue market correction.

I'll let the downvotes tally how pervasive this is.

▲webdood90 an hour ago | parent [-]

Perhaps you are young and don't have people that depend on you. Perhaps your career is more of an identity for you than it is for others.

That's fine, but don't attempt to gatekeep your profession. It makes you look like an inconsiderate asshole.

▲philipwhiuk 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't think they're complaining about the learning curve.

▲tcdent 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Didn't say that to refute it. I chose that to make the point that the degree is not the destination.

▲zamadatix 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Iff your goal is using a degree as a stepping stone, which seems to be getting less popular these days.

For some, the degree is the destination and that's more than fine as well. It's a marker that says "others agree I learned x to a certain level, and I had fun doing it". This tends to overlap well with those who just liked university as an extra method of learning rather than going primarily to form part 1(a) of their career or something.