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▲ jamessb 3 hours ago

And also to pangram 4.1, which rates it as 100% AI Generated.

▲LelouBil 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I only saw pangram being mentioned on HN. How good is it in general ? And what do they use to check if a text is AI Generated, the text watermarks from big models ?

▲persedes 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

it is very good, but keep in mind it'll also flag text edited with grammarly. Maybe not the same as copy and dumping a claude response, but still normalizes the authors voice with AI.

▲maeln an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In my experience, it can have significant false positive. It's pretty good at telling you when something is NOT written by an LLM, but when it says something is, I take it with a big grain of salt.

▲Catloafdev 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They trained a model to detect AI-written text.

It works fine on mainstream models where the output hasn't been edited.

It doesn't work on humanizers or custom model output.

▲hmokiguess 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I hadn't heard of it before, just now looking them up.

Dumb question, but could you pair AI with pangram to make it sound less like AI or would that be a recursive loop? I'm skeptical about it

▲ggreer 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Models are already trained on a ridiculous amount of human-written text, but their outputs are pretty easy to recognize as not human written. Pangram explains some of the reasons for this in a blog post.[1]

The problem with using Pangram in a feedback loop is that Pangram only reports whether it thinks the text is written by AI or not. It doesn't report whether the text makes sense, or whether it contains errors in spelling or grammar. So when people try to pair AIs with Pangram, the quality of the output tends to degrade to the point where it's not useful.

Basically, it's a harder problem to get an AI to accomplish some goal (such as writing a blog post) while also having its output mimic human text. To use an analogy, it's like building a stealth aircraft with the same speed, maneuverability, range, and payload as a non-stealthy aircraft. Even with a much larger budget, it's not always feasible.

1. https://www.pangram.com/blog/no-llms-dont-just-mimic-human-t...

▲matsemann 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's how the earlier image generation models worked. You had one ai to generate images, and one to understand if it's a fake generated image or a real one (like, you have a real image of a dog, use the ai to generate an image of a dog, and pass both to the ai trying to see if it knows which is which). They both start out bad, but evolve together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_adversarial_network

▲yvdriess 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's what adversarial model training is basically.

▲ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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