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▲ harry8 3 hours ago

Question:

Every consumer router-wirelessAP I've seen runs linux.

I never see security upgrades for the kernels they use. Not one. Not ever.

Is this something that should be a cause for concern? Even if you don't run a consumer-grade tplink, netgear, asus, whatever router yourself.

Update: The context which I should have said is that I think LLMs are giving script kids nation state level tools and expertise. This known bug is always less interesting than the next twenty.

▲LaurensBER 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Is it a cause of concern? Yes. Will you get hacked? Most likely not.

Most consumer routers run ancient stacks with all kinds of weird proprietary vendor patches that are tied to a specific kernel version. Looking at you Qualcomm!

However they generally also drop all traffic by default so from the WAN side they look like a black hole. I guess that's "safe" enough for most consumers.

For fun, take a look at the open PRs in the OpenWRT repos. Those people are doing some amazing work but it's also frustrating to see them struggle with things that _could_ be easy if the vendor made some slightly better choices.

I would strongly prefer something like OpenWRT though. Call me paranoid but after the last few weeks I'm increasingly less comfortable with connecting my devices to a blackbox.

▲majorchord 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I know the context here is consumer routers, but for those reading who might be running a server, or a homelab, or anything that does accept connections from outside, I want to make it clear that "most likely not" turns into "likely trivial if targeted" for servers.

▲dwedge 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Can you give examples of kernel bugs that can be targeted on an otherwise locked down system? Let's say something running just LAMP and all other ports closed off with a software firewall. Even the one in this article seems very tricky to actually exploit.

There are plenty of out of support systems still in the wild and while I'm not arguing they are completely secure I was under the impression that kernel vulnerabilities generally make a minor exploit in something else worse (chained priv escalation for example) and generally are difficult to exploit on their own. If I'm mistaken I'd love to know

▲majorchord an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Any TCP packet (with IP options) you can send to a Linux kernel that doesn't get DROP'd by netfilter makes you technically vulnerable.

That includes the one port your LAMP stack uses.

Or, the attacker might be originating from the other side of a device, like within a LAN. Malicious employees/house guests/what-have-you could target devices from inside your network where most devices (not just servers) don't have as much protection and often have other open ports accessible, like file sharing/SMB, SSH, SMTP, RDP, databases etc.

▲cjbprime an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Does the bug we're talking about not count as an example for some reason?

▲harry8 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Don't a lot of consumer routers allow for remote connection for tech help trouble-shooting?

How about forwarding a port for wireguard or ssh?

▲j45 19 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's a massive risk, and only a matter of time. Especially for hardware that's no longer updated firmware wise.

I'm thinking of what to do myself.

The ghost of android releasing 6 month old patches every month is going to come home to roost.

▲estebarb an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Mosty probably: not. Traffic passes throught the ASIC, usually it is not processed on CPU or custom code. Unlike typical web servers, that reduces the attack surface as there aren't software parsers (a common place where vulnerabilities hide). Additionally the OS may have additional protection measures, such as signing each binary, signing the booting image and limiting which syscalls can be done by any binary.

▲wps 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is one of the biggest benefits of using OpenWRT. They update the entire stack like every other month or so you’re never on an ancient kernel or utils.

▲davrosthedalek 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I checked yesterday. Updates were not ready yet. I took the chance to upgrade from 21 to 25 anyway.

▲deepsun an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ubiquity routers and APs do. Also schedulable backups.

Granted they are pro-sumer devices, not strictly consumer.

▲cpburns2009 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

My UDM-Pro had an update available yesterday. I don't know if it's related to the CVE or the shit eMudhra CA.

▲harry8 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a good point, thanks. We know one does which beats none.

▲wahern 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Google Wifi used to be good about that. I even got a notification for when my AP was being EOL'd and would no longer receive automatic firmware updates. I don't know if Google is still on the ball there. The Nest acquisition was confusing. Have the Google Wifi and Nest Wifi teams been merged?

But FWIW I run my AP in bridge mode. Wifi drivers and chip firmware seem to be riddled with exploits. I don't want my router & firewall on the same system as the AP.

▲kevin_thibedeau an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is why I use a fanless PC as my internal router. I have complete control and get timely kernel updates from a responsible distro.

▲toofy an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

even more concerning would be the ones who run closed source os but never update.

at least with an open source os there are more paths forward.

▲qw3rty01 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A lot of them run BSD, not linux, which wasn't affected

▲harry8 2 hours ago | parent [-]

BSD never ever has security issues so kernel updates are never necessary?

That would be a bold claim and one I've never heard before. Hard not to be suspicious of it.

This security flaw is unlikely to be the only security flaw that ever happens to a kernel used by routers.

The point: Consumer routers do not seem to get updates. Ever.

Is that a worry or what?

▲harry8 an hour ago | parent [-]

Google tells me almost none of them run BSD and nothing I've ever heard of, much less seen.

But what do I know about it beyond that?

▲markasoftware 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nah I wouldn't worry about I'm sure they're fine

▲snapplebobapple 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Good thing everything on the lan side is fully patched all the time. God bless those vigilant smart device manufacturers, especially the tv guys

▲pengaru 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

eero updates its APs OTA, they run linux. Even stuff sold > 5 years ago is still receiving updates.

full disclosure: they're my employer

▲iAMkenough 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same for Flock cameras, running a 2017 kernel.

▲iberator an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

most of the routers are patched by ISPs directly. also: they are usually not x86 architecture - so not all exploits are possible.

▲harry8 an hour ago | parent [-]

Never seen an ISP patch a router. Ever.

MIPS and Arm have no security issues ever so never need patching which is an x86 only thing? Or maybe this comment is no more relevant than pointing out not all Arm patches apply to x86?

LLMs are giving script kids nation state level tools and expertise.

▲honkostani 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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