I find the thinkpads extemely cool, and I envy the customization / repair options soo much.

That said, I switched to a macbook pro last year and these machines are like from another world. I want to get things done instead of fiddling with the machine and, famous last words I know but, this thing just works.

Yes, it'll be e-waste the moment a small thing breaks, and costs like a years wage in some parts of the world, so it's no competition to the thinkpad.

I hope framework eventually delivers the best of both worlds.

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forgotpwd16 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

>and costs like a years wage in some parts of the world

An equivalent brand-new ThinkPad isn't really much cheaper. Maybe is more expensive actually. Repairability though is indeed terrible on Macbooks. Neo is the most* repairable and even that is mid (6/10 on iFixit; quite a jump from <=4 Pros have been getting forever).

*Something certainly related to EU's Right To Repair directive.

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gonzalohm 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't think Framework aims to be a laptop that you just set it up and forget. You own everything and that comes with some concessions. Things won't always work, software will always be tricky to make fully compatible, etc.

But that's the price to pay to actually own your laptop.

That said, I heard Mac OS quality has been going downhill since a few years ago

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blueone 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I heard Mac OS quality has been going downhill since a few years ago

It really has. I bought a MacBook Pro in 2011 and used it throughout college. Worked great. I gave it to my friend’s little sister when she started college, and she ended up using it throughout her undergrad. She loved it, zero issues. So, that one MacBook got at least 9 years of use.

Fast forward to 2020, my wife needs a laptop for law school. I figure a MacBook pro would be the simplest, easiest, and most reliable option. It wasn’t. Not only had the cost gone up (I paid ~$1,300 for my MacBook pro, while hers cost ~$2,000 for the same options, but less), but using Microsoft apps like excel, word, and powerpoint was such a hassle sometimes. The apps kept signing her out or didn’t have certain options (like formatting) that were available in the Windows versions. Installing and working with third party apps that some of her professors and classes required was also a hassle, and those apps worked inconsistently. I remember having to give her my laptop a couple of times just so she could get her work done. The battery life was significantly worse compared to my older MacBook. Her MacBook seemed so much slower, couldn’t handle as much, and was overall a crap experience. The simplicity, reliability, and ease of use that used to separate Macs from windows laptops, especially for the average user, just didn't seem to be there anymore. It’s like whatever worked before, they got away from it.

So, anytime I hear someone say, “a MacBook is the best” these days all I think is, “yeah, nah, it’s crap, just like everything else, but slightly more expensive crap.”

	▲	devilsdata 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		2020 was when the ARM-based chips came out. Did you get her an Intel-based or M1-based mac? Because from 2017-2020 the Intel-based Macs were absolutely awful. I've owned several of them. The keyboards were terrible and they were slow. I still have 2019 Macbook Airs sitting around, and I consider them completely unusable. My wife has owned a 2020 M1 Macbook Air since then, and it's still working really well. To the extent that every time we talk about upgrading, we end up agreeing to wait.

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rootnod3 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

First of all they need to offer shipping to anything but US / CA and parts of Europe. Would love to give them a shot but they seem to absolutely refuse to ship to Japan.