| ▲ | Revanche1367 a day ago |
| The quote reads to me like “as long as you can analyze the solution after the machine solves it and make it suggest new ideas based on that, you’re almost the same as a discoverer yourself.” I’m deliberately avoiding “mathematician” here because I think Tao probably didn’t intend to take it that far. But, for many people that difference will be indistinguishable, especially because there will very likely be “math bros” just like “ai bros” and “crypto bros” before them who want to pretend they’re mathematicians just as we see people pretending to be engineers and financial experts based on how fast they got on the hype train. I’m no mathematician, though I do have an undergrad degree in math, and unless I had a graduate degree or made substantial contributions at that level, I would never consider myself anything but a “student of mathematics,” and that too not just because I have a degree in the subject, but because I still have a great interest in certain branches of math and I keep learning in my spare time from books or from adjacent applied fields I continue to formally study. As a kid, I grew up hating math but I became interested in it later in life because of coding, computer science and formal logic, pushing myself a lot through my college years to get some foundational understanding of the subject at a deeper level than the general population, just to get my foot in the door, so to speak. Even if I’m an outsider from the circle of mathematicians, this whole AI takeover of mathematics leaves such a bad taste in my mouth because I’ve long felt that math was one of those things that everyone could agree is a useful and beneficial thing for humanity in general, and it was one of the least divisive fields, where people from different parts of world, from different stations in life could participate, and very few points, especially today, caused any controversy (unlike just about every other subject). It feels like a great loss for humanity to lose a brunt of our engagement with it to the machines, like a whole wing of a gigantic library starting to be closed off from us indefinitely because some people decided that we don’t _need_ to access it anymore, except on an even grander scale possibly than my imaginary library metaphor. |
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| ▲ | abnry a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| Every theorem is already in the mind of God. No theorem prover has discovered it anymore than an astronomer discovers a star. We simply have better access to God's thoughts now. It makes us realize we are human and not divine. |
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| ▲ | jacquesm a day ago | parent [-] | | What a complete nonsense. Math is no more 'the mind of god' than polio is. If anything math is a triumph of mind over religion because it gave us the tools to power a vast chunk of the scientific revolution. Without that we'd be cowering in the dark and hoping that the sun would rise tomorrow. | | |
| ▲ | spolitry a day ago | parent | next [-] | | You completely misunderstood the comment by inserting your own alternat version of God | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | Assuming you are right, can you explain? | | |
| ▲ | imtringued 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's hyperbolical mathematical platonism. The irony is that your response is more anthropocentric than arnby's comment ever was. |
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| ▲ | 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | computably a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I’ve long felt that math was one of those things that everyone could agree is a useful and beneficial thing for humanity in general Funny, I think it's a very widespread opinion to think of math as useless. In the US at least it's a major failure of the education system and STEM communicators. > and it was one of the least divisive fields, where people from different parts of world, from different stations in life could participate, and very few points, especially today, caused any controversy (unlike just about every other subject). There's plenty of controversy in mathematics. Controversy comes from the people, not the field of study. |
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| ▲ | curt15 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > Funny, I think it's a very widespread opinion to think of math as useless. In the US at least it's a major failure of the education system and STEM communicators. That is a US centric view, and it's curious how things came to be that way. European and Asian countries take mathematics more seriously. | | |
| ▲ | nradov 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | How is that working out for them? I am by no means an anti-intellectual and I do value knowledge for it's own sake. But Europeans in particular seem to be unable to translate their mathematics educations into any sort of practical economic growth. | | |
| ▲ | lanstin 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the people in Europe tend to be happy with a chosen system with a more balanced and more steady life outside of work at the cost of less billionaires and GDP growth. And they invent plenty of things, they just, like Salk, don’t seek as obsessively to extract maximum profit from it all. | | | |
| ▲ | lioeters 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "What worth is education if the workers it produces are not making the rich richer." Education is about cultivating true richness of culture and mind. The economy is in service of a higher purpose - of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not the other way around. | | | |
| ▲ | hardbass 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Poland is growing a lot. The Soviet block countries were big on math. | |
| ▲ | 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | solyin a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How useless? Terence Tao made MRIs faster. That's a real thing that STEM and non-STEM people will maybe have to interact with at some point in their lives. Sure, we can blame science communicators. Should we put a bunch of banner ads on everything so that people know that math and science is involved in every thing? | | | |
| ▲ | Revanche1367 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | I know there is some controversy, I would say that the field of study also “causes” controversy in a sense if the disagreement has to do with the subject itself, that is true for any field. For example, set theory “caused” significant controversy in the early years of its development, yes it was people in disagreement and insulting one another, but the fundamental questions were from the subject matter itself. Regarding widespread perception of math as useless, I guess I was thinking mainly of academic circles rather than the general public in that statement. Even while I hated math, I knew it wasn’t useless because my late father (who was a civil engineer) was very good at it, and he was adamant on teaching it to us. It didn’t work on me back then though lol. As I was getting more interested in math while getting my degree in computer science, I realized much of my own issue with math earlier in life was because of the same thing just about everyone else that struggles with it has: the lack of any practical relevance in my own life because of how it’s generally taught. And the fact that many math teachers themselves don’t know the foundational/philosophical aspects of the subject, which would go a long way I think towards explaining that relevance if introduced in some pieces earlier on, rather than treating it like a rote memorization subject and being so focused on continual practice to develop heuristics with exercises that some students couldn’t care less about. Of course, that works for some people clearly, but it didn’t for me at the time and I’m of the opinion high schools should focus more on discrete math like set theory, and formal logic rather than calculus, which is of little relevance at that stage unless you’re also invested in studying physics. Sets and logic on the other hand imo are general enough right at the beginning to be relevant to just about everything people of just about any age are concerned with. |
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| ▲ | atribecalledqst a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
| You just made me think of something but I'm almost afraid of saying out loud because I don't want to speak it into existence... AI-generated math textbooks (but they probably already exist) |
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