| ▲ | dabinat a day ago |
| The danger is that we give good leaders too much power, and they’re then replaced by someone who abuses it. And that’s why we need to be careful how much power we give someone, even if we’re sure they will use it wisely. |
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| ▲ | xg15 a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| I agree, but would like the same thought applied to the private sector. I read a lot of comments who are extremely critical of every bit of power a state assumes, but have no problem if a private company reaches a practical monopoly or gets access to every intimate detail of peoples' lives. |
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| ▲ | ZnerflBerp a day ago | parent | next [-] | | The theory is that inefficient companies die in the open marketplace, and bad leadership is inefficient. This fails to account for the sheer scale and encumbancy advantages of massive corporations. It also fails to account that efficiency can be appallingly evil. | | |
| ▲ | xg15 a day ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, I feel this often confuses what "efficiency" means from the company's perspective vs wider society's perspective. A company that streamlines its operations and archives a huge profit margin is clearly efficient from the PoV of its own management and shareholders. However from the PoV of its customers, it's maximally inefficient, because it tries to extract the highest price for the least amount of work done that people are still willing to pay. |
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| ▲ | aidenn0 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Even Hayek was a proponent of robust antitrust measures for this reason. And he's hardly a figure of the political left. |
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| ▲ | titzer a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Let's start with basic accountability, like swift and just punishment when those in power break the law. |
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| ▲ | reliabilityguy a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I would say let’s start with accountability for politicians in general. It’s pretty common for idiots mess up locally and then self promote upwards to state and federal levels. | | |
| ▲ | titzer a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Accountability absolutely starts at the top. If we expect to re-establish accountability for rubes first while turning a blind eye to those in power, then we are just playing into their hands. | | |
| ▲ | incompatible a day ago | parent [-] | | People at the top will generally be able to dismantle mechanisms of accountability, since they are at the top. | | |
| ▲ | ZnerflBerp 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | They wouldn't dare if they thought revolution was a credible threat. The people have become too tame. | | |
| ▲ | titzer 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is what we are not supposed to talk about. The people outnumber the ruling class, and, operating all the means of production, could wield power by simply going on strike, bringing them to heel long before revolution is necessary. People won't do it today because they are both comfortable and too chained to their current jobs. They are increasingly divided by culture war bullshit that is not at all relevant to the important parts of society, like accountability for leadership. |
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| ▲ | nradov a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Politicians can't just appoint themselves to Congress or state legislatures. You may think they're idiots but citizens are voting for them. Is it possible that some of those "idiots" aren't as stupid as you think but rather just have different priorities and values? | | |
| ▲ | reliabilityguy a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Politicians are optimizing for one objective: to be re-elected. This is very different one from the objective I want them to focus on: improving the lives of their constituency. | | |
| ▲ | OtomotO a day ago | parent [-] | | In an ideal world, politicians who don't work on improving the lives of their constituency wouldn't get voted for. As that is not the case and improving the lives of their constituency doesn't necessarily get them voted for again AND whatever good they did may get undone before it really shows its effects: of course they only care about being reelected... Even if they had ideals and morals to begin with. | | |
| ▲ | ZnerflBerp 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Information and investment assymetry means there will always be election-winning rewards for dirty politicking. An actually effective politician, who has morals must balance the two. And they must try to be more skillful in general at politicking than their unscruplous rivals. |
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| ▲ | johannes1234321 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | People are ecoring for them and others (include you, whoever reads this) don't compete with them and challenge them. | | |
| ▲ | nradov a day ago | parent [-] | | I don't think I'm ecoring for anyone. I don't even know what that is. |
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| ▲ | linhns a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If we can ban congress trading somehow… | |
| ▲ | ajross a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This sounds much more like "Please Don't Hold My Politicians Accountable" than "I favor accountability", FWIW. I know decorum here disfavors talking about specific parties and actors, and this thread is 100% sideways. Nonetheless this kind of attitude is at best only a stepping stone to recovery. You can't both-sides your way through a constitutional crisis. | |
| ▲ | wtch98 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not unique to politicians, any large organisation who doesn't have a strong single leader sees this. It's nothing new either, with the Peter principle, the Dilbert Principle, even the Gervais Principle, recognising the symptoms. | |
| ▲ | nullstyle a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Paging Sarah Palin, you are wanted at the ticket counter. Paging sarah palin… |
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| ▲ | mpalczewski a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | and who gets to decide that? now you've concentrated power again. | | |
| ▲ | 7952 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Having the authority to sanction a president does not necessarily mean that person has the power to overthrow a president. And the people with the most direct power (military and secret service) lack the authority to use it. Mostly these factors can balance out so that power is not concentrated as much as it seems. | | |
| ▲ | scns a day ago | parent [-] | | IIRC Atatürks' turkish constitution demanded that the military overthrows the government if it devolves into tyranny. |
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| ▲ | goodpoint a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ever heard of voting? | |
| ▲ | wahnfrieden a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | You’re downvoted because it appears cynical about something that appears to have no reasonable alternative but you’re correct |
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| ▲ | MentalM a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | ranger207 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes, this is why my opinion is that in politics, the ends absolutely do not justify the means, because a broken system that produces the right answer is lucky, and a working system that produces the right answer is... working as intended |
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| ▲ | blagie a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The problem is more about how we pick whom we give power to. |
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| ▲ | mattm a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the problem is more about how do we get people in power that don't actually care about it. You have to go through a lot of crap to get to a high leadership position and, in general, the only types of people that will think it's worth it are the ones who are attracted to the position because of the power benefits that it offers. | |
| ▲ | Gormo a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | That problem doesn't really have a solution, though. Power inherently is a corrupting influence, and everyone is fallible. Focusing on building safeguards into how we choose whom to give power to, rather than limiting the exercise of power itself, will always produce dysfunctional systems. | | |
| ▲ | mlloyd a day ago | parent [-] | | Power isn't inherently corrupting. It just is. People can be corruptable, fallible, greedy and unprepared to wield power over others - especially the people that seek out power. The solution is to build better people from the ground up (culture and education) AND create institutional protections that function during both the absence and presence of substantial political power. I'd argue that, in the USA, we've done neither and appear surprised when it keeps turning out poorly for us. | | |
| ▲ | Gormo a day ago | parent [-] | | > The solution is to build better people from the ground up (culture and education) No, it's not. Trying to reform human nature through some sort of all-encompassing utopian project always and inevitably (a) fails miserably, and (b) itself becomes a vehicle for corrupt power-seekers to pursue their ulterior motives. > create institutional protections that function during both the absence and presence of substantial political power Institutional protections formulated correctly are constraints on the exercise of power itself: strict limits on the reach of political power; checks and balances among multiple parallel institutions; mechanisms of public accountability, incentive structures that align selfish motivations with public purposes, etc. This is exactly the sort of stuff I'm talking about. > I'd argue that, in the USA, we've done neither and appear surprised when it keeps turning out poorly for us. In the USA, we've wisely eschewed (a) and avoided the disastrous failure modalities that entails, and instead pursued (b) quite extensively, to the point that things have in fact turned out reasonably well for us, especially in comparison to other countries in the world that have attempted the inverse (i.e. centralizing power with insufficient constraints in the hands of the "right" people, who are always the wrong people). |
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| ▲ | vaadu a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not just leaders, but government in general. Unelected bureaucracies can be just as dangerous. And they are not our leaders, they are our representatives. Regarding them as leaders allows them to act as our betters. And another reason for term limits on Congress. |
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| ▲ | sleight42 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'll say it. So, basically, Trump? |
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| ▲ | rnd0 a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
| hard times make good leaders, good leaders make soft times, soft times make bad leaders, bad leaders make hard times |