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▲ sloob 5 hours ago

I work at a startup and often deal with every part of the stack--programming, deployment, db, cloud environment, networking blah blah. AI agents have just gotten superhuman at computer use. I will never be able to use AWS CLI as well as claude does. I can spend time poking around in AWS, manually reading logs, looking at routing tables, cross checking with data in db, whatever, or I can give claude readonly access to all of that stuff and it will solve the issue literally 10x faster than I could, write a detailed report I can pass on to whoever, etc. Is it sometimes BSing? yes, but it just keeps getting better.

All that said, skill atrophy is real. Thinking about getting back on the interview circuit is p scary because of it. I dunno wtf is gonna happen.

▲sega_sai 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The way I think about this -- AI makes all of us managers. We need to figure out when we are convinced by what is brought in front of us, when to ask to do more checks/validation, when to fully reject, when to accept. To do this properly we need to have to have enough background knowledge to evaluate the what is AI brings, otherwise otherwise a person in the loop is simply not needed if they only type a prompt and always click yes.

I think people indeed need to constantly practice our low level skills, otherwise they will atrophy.

▲sshine 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> skill atrophy is real

It is also both a choice and avoidable.

Atrophy happens when you trade understanding for productivity. Productivity benefits your employer and your KPIs, but not your understanding and your opportunities going forward.

Understanding used to be an unavoidable of the exploration process, and writing documentation used to be the thing that never got done. Now, writing documentation is automatic, but reading it still isn't.

I've been managing a team of interns at my last job, and as they were all equipped with coding agents, they'd deliver complete solutions to problems once or several times per day that would normally take days, or weeks if you factor in necessary learning.

As review of their understanding, and for the sake of my own cognitive debt, I would first ask them the question "How does it work?" and they usually couldn't answer. After a handful of tasks, they started preparing answers. This forth-and-back is still more shallow than getting the deep knowledge chiseled through hours of trial and error, debugging and wrong directions. Spending two hours to find a problem to realize you forgot to save or upload a file, or had an x instead of a y. I look back with nostalgia, and I wonder if there weren't always better ways, and we just get to pick them now. I can literally convert any task, solved or not, into a quiz that brings me towards understanding, in rainbow-colored pig latin.

▲stopwatchstring an hour ago | parent [-]

[dead]

▲YeGoblynQueenne 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>> I will never be able to use AWS CLI as well as claude does.

Are you sure that it's superhuman; and not super -you- man?

▲eqmvii 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But there's a new skill blossoming there, right? That's what I'm noticing. The atrophying skill is one you don't need anymore. The new one - prompting, routing the output, spotting the hallucinations, managing singal/noise etc. - is now where you can add tremendous value.

To say nothing of being bold enough to run systems like that in the first place. I know some of engineers that are still folding their arms and refusing to engage with AI!

▲stackskipton 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>spotting the hallucinations

SRE here, spotting the hallucinations requires you to have the knowledge to know when it's wrong. Best way to gain knowledge on systems is actually working on them. If AI do all the work, then you don't get the knowledge.

▲thewhitetulip 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Exactly. How hard is it to understand for people?

If you don't ride your bicycle for years and years because you can just write "drive yourself"

Then your skills are atrophying. Typing isn't a skill

▲loopmonster 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't know that that analogy fits for this comment. The argument is that the old skill is genuinely no longer needed in favour of the new skill, but the new skill requires experience from the old skill. I don't think being a good driver needs you to have already been a good cyclist.

▲apitman 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How do technical managers solve this problem? I've never been a real manager.

▲jeremyjh 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Good ones force themselves to do technical work hands on regularly, but will generally reach a level where they can't actually do that anymore unless they are really good at building management systems and delegating. For me it has happened in cycles over the last 25 years; after 4-6 years in management I refresh skills and go back to an IC role because I can't stand it anymore. I've done that cycle three times but I won't do it quite the same way again because its probably impossible to do without a pay cut now, and because IC don't write code anymore anyway.

This is both like forcing all IC to develop management skills but its also like the shift to cloud infrastructure or 4GL languages - we are never going back to the old ways and will be building everything at a different level of abstraction with a different span of control.

▲NeOchenHorosho 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I guess humans don't hallucinate that much

▲delecti 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Humans don't literally hallucinate much, but we do lie, or are wrong.

▲yubblegum an hour ago | parent [-]

Humans are deterministic and have personality traits. The first couple of times getting bs’d and that person is now a known quality.

Agents fail randomly. One day a stellar dev and next a bs artist.

So this idea that LLM hallucination is not unlike human failings is without merit.

▲raincole 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Humans hallucinate much more, but they're not that good at making the hallucinations convincing.

▲customguy 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Not even that Proton CEO claimed that. This is another one of those "no u" knee-jerk reactions littered all over this site, and I wonder when we'll first see stuff like "but humans also sometimes fail to load because of network issues", because there is no real distance between "humans hallucinate even more" and something like that.

▲krapp 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No they don't. Any human who hallucinated as much as an LLM does would be committed.

▲macintux 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't know how to spot hallucinations, manage signal/noise, without having a pretty good understanding of the problem space. It's a tough balancing act.

▲archagon an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A company comprised entirely of management. I'm sure only great things will come of this.

▲timacles 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The atrophying skill is one you don't need anymore.

of course. who needs to walk when we have cars

▲mattmanser 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Every new model and you might as well chuck 90% of that knowledge in the bin.

Last Claude major version they released a blog post basically telling you to chuck away your Claude.md file and start again.

It was only 18 months ago when people were telling you to use ultrathink:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43739997

And then that went away about a year ago, and now it’s sort of back again but not quite as it was.

▲brabel 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I used to scour through server logs, build logs, test reports etc to figure out why tests were failing in CI. That was exhausting work and could take days of investigation. Now I get the exact root cause in a couple of minutes. Just had to give LLMs a token to call Jenkins API and it knows how to do the rest. What an unbelievable experience. Never ever thought computers would be able to do this in my lifetime.

▲naillumanist 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Velocity is sought because we lost traction. If you can effect your designs in few actions, speed has nothing on intention.

▲boogieknite 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I dunno wtf is gonna happen.

me either but i do know it will happen sooner than i expect

▲beepbooptheory 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You may never be as fast, but you should absolutely feel at least hypothetically capable of using the CLI at least as well. Or just.. Reading docs and understanding patterns or interfaces was never a superhuman skill and it still isn't. You are a lot more capable than you probably think!

And I am not just trying to platitude you here. Without that basic confidence everything ends up just eventually being harder with the AI, even if maybe the feedback and loop of it all feels faster.

▲znpy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I’m doing interviews as a senior sre and frankly it’s extremely weird.

I’m being asked very open ended scenario-based questions, I’m answering honestly, and it seems to be going well (i’m moving through the interview funnel).

I’m not getting asked deeply technical questions. No weird obscure trivia. No stack-specific things. No linux internals. No weird networking trap questions. Coding part is essentially gone.

My interviewers so far have mostly been other senior SREs.

It looks like a market where a senior sre can recognise another senior sre. Some kind of closed circle.

So weird, so so weird.