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▲ germandiago 3 hours ago

The main problem comes from under maintenance. I am spanish, we have known this for years.

15 or 20 years ago when I took the train it worked well.

Now there are more trains and they increased the traffic like by 70% if I am not wrong and the budget for railway infrastructure by only 17% and it seems to not scale well enough, for whatever reason I do not know all the details.

There are a lot of railway tracks that are not in good state so speed must be lowered. There are incideents and delays routinely, all the time.

This did not happen until like 10 years ago and it has gotten worse and worse since then, not only in high speed trains.

The roads is a mess also: 52% of infrastructure for roads has bad or very bad defects in it.

The thing is that we have a record in government incomings and the services, ALL of them (healthcare, roads, infrastructure...) slowly collapsing.Part of the money is not going to the right places. I think that nearly 40% of the budget goes for retired people. We have 9.5 million pensionists in Spain.

We have to change that system and rationalize government spending and welfare or eventually everything will collapse.

▲Grombobulous 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’m very wary of finger-pointing like your comment that ultimately serves to advocate for cutting quality of life for citizens.

Roughly 31% of Japan’s budget goes to social security. They don’t have problems keeping their high speed trains safe.

Cutting pensions won’t make trains safe.

I will also point out that on its own without further context, a high percentage of government spending going toward something doesn’t make that spending irresponsible or misappropriated. In the United States, a very high percentage of federal taxes are spent on Medicare and Social Security. But it should come as no sirprise that a very large percentage of federal income tax revenue is directly appropriated to pay for those things.

▲Al-Khwarizmi 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Pension expenditure in Spain is out of proportion from any point of view, though. I'll provide links to some graphs because I think they give more information than my words could:

https://elequidistante.github.io/graficos-jongonzlz/pensione...

https://elequidistante.github.io/graficos-jongonzlz/pensione...

https://elequidistante.github.io/graficos-jongonzlz/pensione...

And maybe this is the most illustrative:

https://i.redd.it/uwvgxycxhjeg1.jpeg

So yes, the reason why we are underinvesting in pretty much everything is basically pensions. GDP is up, tax collection is up, debt to GDP is sligthly decreasing... but pension expenses keep growing at a fast pace so there's less and less money for everything else. And I say this with both of my parents earning the maximum pension, so I don't have an axe to grind, but it's just reality.

▲germandiago 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am not suggesting cutting down pensions. My own parents are pensionists... so that you get an idea.

I am giving an objective explanation in all honesty: Spain needs a pensions reform probably at some point bc it is 40% of the expenses in the yearly budget, with a deficit and a demographic deficit. This will explode.

If it can be taken from elsewhere, better.

But you know how much are pensions in Spain and know our pension system in detail (it is literally a Poncy system...)? They are often higher than people working!

Whether we like it or not, we need to reform or collapse in the future. I wish it could be taken from elsewhere, but 40% is a lot...

There is a lot of useless expenses in public work in our "federal system" (comunidades autónomas).

▲LtdJorge 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We're financing pensions with debt, that's why it's a problem.

▲pofferfish 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You will notice that 31 is less than 40

▲square_usual 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Japan is a terrible comparison here because their rail network is privatized. They're also paying their pensions with debt, and their economy is really stagnant and not a shining example of a country doing well with a pension burden that high.

▲Grombobulous 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t know why that makes them a bad comparison, anyone can follow what Japan did with its train system.

▲ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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▲qurren 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> They don’t have problems keeping their high speed trains safe

Their trains are safe, but they also have 2X the national suicide rate as Spain, which amounts to about 17000 more deaths per year. I'd attribute a big chunk of that to their work culture treating people like machines, whereas Spain's work culture tends to lean towards treating people like humans.

That isn't an excuse for railway mishaps, of course, but I'm just trying to de-romanticize Japan as some kind of magical perfect place. It's not. They might have gotten their railways right, but they have massive safety issues around mental health.

▲nbajka an hour ago | parent [-]

> Spain's work culture tends to lean towards treating people like humans

You clearly have not worked for the average Spanish employer.

▲xorcist an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not saying maintenance isn't a problem, it probably is. It's a problem everywhere in Europe. Have you seen train service in England, Germany or Sweden? Absolutely terrible, compared to just two decades ago.

But under-maintenance causes trains to stand still and be late. It does not cause them to crash.

Crashes are caused by running at speeds higher than the (under-maintained) rail can support, or (against all rules and every regulation) no cap on speed when the signalling system is down.

The latter can not be solved with more money and resources. It is a culture problem. Rules can not routinely be disregarded for arbitrary reasons, especially not when they are completely in line with common sense.

▲rwyinuse 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Over here in Finland our road infrastructure sucks too, and pensioners take lion's share of all the resources. Yet our trains aren't crashing. There's something wrong with systems and safety culture in your railroads. Bad maintenance doesn't cause trains to crash into each other if proper procedures are followed.

Still I agree, pension systems in most EU countries are unsustainable.

▲JaumeGreen 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Deterioration started long before that, according to my sources it started on 2008, but yeah, last 5 years or so it has gone worse. The budget for it has been increasing year by year. It seems that the main problem is not just lack of maintenance but that there's more traffic and new construction.

Pensions is 13%PIB which is on the European median.

The problem is demographic. Also take into account that retired people have paid for their retirement.

Your rhetoric is not what I'd like to be promoted as the first answer entering. Just reading the title of the news I knew what kind of messages I'd see promoted.

▲nbajka an hour ago | parent [-]

>Also take into account that retired people have paid for their retirement.

No, they have not. It's a pyramid scheme. Whatever they put into the system when they worked probably doesn't even cover 5 years of retirement.

▲nbajka an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In Spain, half a million more people depend on money they get from the government than work in the private sector: https://theobjective.com/economia/macroeconomia/2024-09-16/a...

▲fleroviumna 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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