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▲ somesortofthing 5 days ago

People at the bottom of the status hierarchy will drop out to live in simulations that give them what they wanted but couldn't get from life. After a while, they'd likely choose to suppress their memories of ever having existed outside the simulation - there's nobody in the experience machine that'll judge you for doing it. With those people gone, the people immediately above them now occupy that bottom level, and the cycle repeats.

Whoever is in charge could try to drag those people back into the real world by force, but it's hard to imagine GPT 12.2 Polaris or Claude 9 Cinematic Universe giving that the green light. The Status Game will end with a single, final winner.

▲SpicyLemonZest 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Why do you need to drop to some kind of simulation and memory suppressing? It seems like it would be sufficient to do what many subcultures do today - come up with reasons why my hobbies are the coolest and it’s actually the normies playing their status games who are missing out.

▲lurk2 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

This was Nietzsche’s chief criticism of Christianity. It is also a good summary of Reddit morality where social rejects build an inverted status pyramid. It’s amazing how Google made a few bad decisions on Search and it led to some of the most maladjusted people on earth becoming the internet’s point of reference for what is normal.

▲andai 5 days ago | parent [-]

Wait, how does Google fit in with it?

Also, Nietzsche's Last Man

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_man

> The last man is the archetypal passive nihilist. He is tired of life, takes no risks, and seeks only comfort and security. Therefore, the last man is unable to build and act upon a self-actualized ethos.

▲lurk2 5 days ago | parent [-]

> Wait, how does Google fit in with it?

A lot of people ended up on Reddit because they learned that they could append site:Reddit.com to their searches to get better results. Reddit was never exceptionally well-managed or technically impressive, it was just accessible in search results in a way that platforms like Facebook and Twitter became increasingly hostile to in the mid-2010s.

▲andai 5 days ago | parent [-]

What are the bad decisions that Google made then, in this context?

▲lurk2 3 days ago | parent [-]

You didn’t used to have to append the operator to find what you were looking for. People only started doing it because the relevance of Google search results declined.

▲zmgsabst 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There’s a less cynical take:

We create new hobbies and niches because human scale arenas are important for us psychologically — so we branch culture to accommodate the necessary number of role performance arenas.

Everybody is playing status games, but we’re avoiding Calhoun-style behavioral sinks by not all playing the same game at the same table.

▲oceanplexian 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

What nobody understands is people will move on to bigger and badder hobbies, like 100 years ago your hobbies might have been playing cards or maybe woodworking. 100 years from now your hobby won’t be debugging Python exceptions, it will be working on a fusion reactor in a friend’s garage over a couple beers.

▲SpicyLemonZest 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

That's fair, I meant it in a more loving way than it came across. One of the great things about human culture is that we're happy to form impromptu hierarchies like that. You even have friend groups where people are happy to win an n=1 status game by being "the jeans guy", and everyone happily tells them how cool it is that they're so into selvedge denim.

▲0x1ch 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To a lesser extent, myself and others already are in the 'simulation'. I go to work, go home, play some games or muck around in my lab, repeat. I don't really have aspirations or an outside presence, just focused on ignoring every manmade horror that has been shown to us over the past four years.

▲OrangeDelonge 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I feel (and not saying it to upset people) that this perfectly describes playing time-sink MMOs like WoW or Runescape.

▲trashface 5 days ago | parent [-]

As someone already essentially living the simulated life, I believe the problem with MMOs is they aren't built to withstand the amount of time a person with nothing else to do can throw at them. So then they get boring, and I end up reading hacker news and making dumb comments, and asking claude inane questions, or generally trying to find other simulation-friendly way to spend my time (not interacting with people though, that is hard mode).

▲harvey9 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Slightly tangential: I get bored with most games very quickly but I am happy to sink time into messing around in code. I wanted to make a simulation of a real place and make it more interesting to a general audience than just showing stats and plots. in researching this I found there's quite a few people making city builder games for themselves and chronicling their projects on YouTube.

▲FreePalestine1 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why do you consider yourself living in a simulation? Not to sound snarky but why don't you go outside and meet people, exercise, play sports, explore nature?

▲dopehare 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

>Not to sound snarky but why don't you go outside and meet people, exercise, play sports, and explore nature?

Lots of people don't find it worth it anymore. Most members of the public are the same and aren't free-thinkers, whatever that means to you. That's one reason-excuse I feel.

▲creata 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Not to sound snarky but why don't you go outside and meet people, exercise, play sports, explore nature?

For many people it's shame. Feeling like you're mentally a child while everyone around you is an adult can't be a good feeling.

▲ro_sharp 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The average person in the developed world already spends the majority of their free time in front of a screen, and the share increases the younger they are.

Who’s not in the simulation at this point?

▲anthonypasq 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Serious question, why do people feel motivated to grind gold in video games, but not money in real life?

▲benlivengood 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

Instant gratification on rails, essentially.

On one hand you have slots/roulette/craps gambling where payout or loss is immediate. Next come candy crush style games where time invested per session is minimal but extant, but reward continues to stream with flashy graphics for accomplishing subgoals. Next come longer-term games like 4x or tower defence where there's progression or some sort (often available to skill or how much time you have to spend) where payoff is delayed to the end but there are still progress rewards like new technology or beating a wave of enemies. Finally RPGs and MMOs where there is (often) no final payout but leveling up, completing quests, acquiring special items, etc. happens at a pace that rewards time spent. At no time is the next step mysterious; there's a journal with next steps which will each provide their own rewards.

Contrast that with real life where reward is on a fixed schedule (N paychecks a month) with no short-term feedback on performance. At best a short "good work" reward fairly rarely from management. There are subtler rewards people get like socialization or status, but they aren't on a quest journal and they arrive less frequently for most people.

I think for extroverts in high social contact jobs it may actually be as rewarding as gaming, e.g. direct sales.

Contractors and spot workers (day laborers, etc.) also get a bit more frequent reward feedback, but far fewer rails unless it's a very canned pipeline of clients.

Contrast with the ancestral environment where hunting or gathering had minutes or hours between reward feedback and our natural senses and instincts provided a lot of the rails (hunger, visual attention to animals and edible plants, potential mates).

▲anthonypasq 4 days ago | parent [-]

this sounds really dumb, but it seems that if people are that motivated by progress bars and blinking lights and flashy animations, we should really be developing video game HUDs into AR headsets to get people to grind in real life instead of video games.

▲sjducb 3 days ago | parent [-]

I sort of did that. In October 2019 I started calculating my net worth every month. I have lots of graphs and charts.

Now I’m a FI millionaire who works because it’s the best way to meet interesting people my age. I look forward to when AI frees everyone from work and they have time to do fun stuff during the day too.

▲dTal 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Games are designed to incentivize you to stay in them. Real life has you as a captive audience, and to the extent that it's "designed", it is designed by people also playing the game, against you who have no incentive to encourage you to try harder to beat them.

▲opan 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I like that I can hop on at any time of day, make some progress, hop off any time. I don't have to wake with an alarm and stay out gold farming for 8 hours with 2 or 3 short breaks. I don't have to leave the house. I don't have to talk to anyone. I grew up with MMOs like Graal Online, RuneScape, MapleStory, etc. I have been extremely disappointed by the real world's version of jobs and money. Gold in a game often feels more useful as well. I have actual needs for it. Real life by contrast is vaguely like "work forever and keep making money because that's just what you're supposed to do".

▲superxpro12 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

in the game, the success is guaranteed. Time in = gold out.

IRL, success is NOT guaranteed. time in does not necessarily yield additional income.

in the former case, the reward pathway in the brain is satisfied, so why risk it?

▲anthonypasq 4 days ago | parent [-]

how does an hourly wage not satisfy what you are talking about

▲Der_Einzige 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

These are the same thing often times. Venezuelans made more money bottling GP in RuneScape than they did in their home country working real jobs.

▲digitalsquare 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The movie The Congress explores the ideas of control through society-scale simulation and the loss of one's real identity when immersed in that setting, much like what you suggest. It's a visual trip, thoroughly thought provoking, and I highly recommend it

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1821641/

▲sidewndr46 5 days ago | parent [-]

Isn't the whole concept of 'real identity' phony anyways? Just something we tell ourselves to rationalize our current circumstance?

▲digitalsquare 4 days ago | parent [-]

I suppose it's as real as the circumstances around it, and that's one's own perspective. That's not to say that identity can't be malleable in a sense

▲Apocryphon 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don’t fully agree with your thesis, but good prospective future model version names.

▲creata 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Whoever is in charge could try to drag those people back into the real world by force

But why would you even want that? They like it in the simulation, and nobody really wants to deal with them outside the simulation.

▲archimedes237 5 days ago | parent [-]

Because if they check out into the simulation then the people formerly above them are now the lowest on the totem pole and maybe they dont want that.

▲creata 5 days ago | parent [-]

They've already "checked out" in reality (NEETs, etc.) but they're still "lowest on the totem pole". The people who feel superior to them seem content to do so from afar, to belittle them from the comfort of social media.

▲articulatepang 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My math brain is immediately broken by your irrefutably correct induction argument!

▲Der_Einzige 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I unironically want this world as soon as possible.