| ▲ | mapontosevenths 6 hours ago |
| "By saying "common", we mean to include names which are in widespread daily use, rather than giving immediate recognition to any arbitrary governmental re-naming. In other words, if a ruler announced that henceforth the Pacific Ocean would be named after her mother, we would not add that placemark unless and until the name came into common usage. " They violated their own policy with the gulf then. |
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| ▲ | lallysingh 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Same name, but the company is quite different. What of that old Google is left now? |
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| ▲ | doginasuit 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is an interesting question to ask of any company. Every company over a long period is a Ship of Theseus. Google started out as a rowboat and now it is an ocean liner. Investment in product quality, "Don't be evil", everything that set a company apart and allowed it to rise, it lasts only as long as it is preserved in a way that resists decay. Is there anything left of the rowboat? I'm at the point where I am actively trying to shut Google out of my life to the degree that it is possible. And yet it is still not Microsoft. I catch a glimmer of the old google in a product release now and then. | | |
| ▲ | jppope 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | To quote Christopher Nolan: “You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.” | | |
| ▲ | virgil_disgr4ce 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Fun fact, according to C-Nol himself, his brother (Jonathan Nolan) wrote that line | | |
| ▲ | redwood 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | And as a reminder to folks he's the writer of (the newer era) Westworld which if you haven't seen the full first season really turns into an incredible mind bender | | |
| ▲ | dinkblam 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That show should have died the hero, i.e. after season one. | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | S2 was reasonably OK, IMO. But that was it. And all their talk of having a fantastic entire story laid out right from the start? I don't believe a word of it. There's no way they had thought up Rehobaum or whatever it was called back when they started work on S1. |
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| ▲ | goodmythical 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I hear there's a janitor using the handle of one of the original paddles as a mop handle. It's only there because it wasn't inventoried and so not lost in the purge. |
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| ▲ | coef2 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The last two words of their old motto "don't be evil" | |
| ▲ | freecodeio 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | only the 2 founders, which seems have become quite out of touch lately | | |
| ▲ | nervai 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | "The United Nations is a transparently antisemitic organisation"
- Google Co Founder https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/07/08/sergey-... | | | |
| ▲ | hn_throwaway_99 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not just out of touch, but downright psychopathic in my opinion. I used to greatly admire Larry Page. He seemed like a really smart, driven, level-headed guy. When the news came out that he was basically fine with AI wiping out humanity, as it would just be the natural evolution of intelligence, and to fight against that would be "speciesist", all I good think was "what a psycho". And I really don't think I'm exaggerating Page's opinion on this, though I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. | | |
| ▲ | nextaccountic 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm willing to bet he's speciesist in relation to actual, existing species of other animals | |
| ▲ | ctmlr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Extreme wealth seems to cook people's brains. | |
| ▲ | redwood 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Incredible back story here if I can trust Gemini on this as that dates back to over 10 years ago when Musk accused Larry Page of being too obsessed with bringing about AI and hence co-founds OpenAI... the irony of course being that OpenAI raced ahead while Google has been conservative |
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| ▲ | LightBug1 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm still calling the axing of Google Reader the jump the shark moment! | | |
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| ▲ | rickdeckard 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It seems their actual policy is "the policy of Primary Local Usage": "Under this policy, the English Google Earth client displays the primary, common, local name(s) given to a body of water by the sovereign nations that border it. If all bordering countries agree on the name, then the common single name is displayed (e.g. "Caribbean Sea" in English, "Mar Caribe" in Spanish, etc.). But if different countries dispute the proper name for a body of water, our policy is to display both names, with each label placed closer to the country or countries that use it." Which basically means "multiple names until all bordering countries agree on the same name", if I'm not mistaken |
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| ▲ | Gormo 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The problem here is that the "primary, common, local" name used in a country sometimes conflicts with what specific government institutions in those countries may "officially" use. In the situation with the Gulf, it's unambiguously true that the "primary, common, local" name used in the US by English-speaking Americans is "Gulf of Mexico", but they decided to adhere to an artificial name change declared by a political figure, whose authority to make that "official" only extends to a single branch of a single level of government. | | |
| ▲ | amiga386 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not only that, but the only area he's authorised to name is a stretch of the US coastline and its EEZ. He has no authority to name international bodies of water - i.e the large part in the centre where Google should be writing "Gulf of Mexico" because that's its name. But he does have the ability to cause trouble for the giant corporations based in his country that serve map images to most of the rest of the world. The giant corporations also see that he grants favours for fealty. So it's actually the unofficial power he has that's the problem, rather than what's within his legal remit. | |
| ▲ | rickdeckard 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > "In the situation with the Gulf, it's unambiguously true that the "primary, common, local" name used in the US" And that's my point. It depends on how "primary" or "common" is defined, the article has no definition of it. Who gets to decide that, Google? The easy (and predictable) cop-out is to follow a governments definition of what is "the expected primary and common name", and then show that name in brackets. The only restriction this "definition" seems to set is that your country needs to be adjacent to the landmark to define its name, so "a ruler" cannot decide to rename e.g. Australia unless he is either "the ruler" of Australia or of a country adjacent to it. And we're back to square one. -- EDIT: Yes, I also read this sentence: "By saying "common", we mean to include names which are in widespread daily use, rather than giving immediate recognition to any arbitrary governmental re-naming.". The question remains how to quantify "widespread daily use". It creates room to justify against an immediate change of a name, but doesn't define when this criteria is reached. And from all I see, all this doesn't seem to matter anyway, because a new local naming will anyway be added in brackets (see Gulf of Mexico). What am I missing? | | |
| ▲ | CrazyStat 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The article does have definitions of both primary and common, though: > By saying "primary", we aim to include names of dominant use, rather than having to add every conceivable local nickname or variation. By saying "common", we mean to include names which are in widespread daily use, rather than giving immediate recognition to any arbitrary governmental re-naming. In other words, if a ruler announced that henceforth the Pacific Ocean would be named after her mother, we would not add that placemark unless and until the name came into common usage. | | |
| ▲ | Gormo 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Which is consistent with Wikipedia's naming policy, and the Wikipedia community already puts in the effort to sort out what primary names to use for things. If Google doesn't want to try to discern the proper "primary, local, common" names on their own, they do worse than just using Wikipedia's names and call it a day. |
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| ▲ | OskarS 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's a very lawyerly distinction you're making here that's willfully blind to what's really going on. The common-sense reading "primary, common, local name" is that it should be called the Gulf of Mexico, as that is what it is called in the USA. If the nutso president of Turkmenistan decided one day that the Caspian Sea's real name was the Turkmen Sea, there's absolutely no way that Google Maps would rename it on their maps. The reason they renamed it in this case is not because "well, the government said so, so we have no choice!". It's (obviously!) done to not piss of Trump, and pissing off Trump would be bad for their business. They can hide behind lawyerly arguing all they want, but that is the real reason. | | |
| ▲ | ElevenLathe 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm not so sure on the Turkmen Sea example. Google is (trying to) sidestep this issue as much as possible by making the name on the map depend on your physical location, language and localization settings, or both. They could easily make the Caspian Sea say Turkmen Sea only in Turkmenistan, and probably would if they wanted to keep doing business in Turkmenistan. This is already how it works for Lake Ontario: if I access from the US, it says "Lake America", but if I VPN to somewhere in Europe, it says "Lake Ontario (Lake America)". In terms of lawyerly distinctions, I would actually argue that there is still no legal basis to the rename. The president has directed the federal executive branch to refer to Lake Ontario as Lake America, but...that's it. It literally doesn't and can't apply to Google. No law has been passed, and even if there had been it's pretty clear that it's a 1st Amendment issue to compel private entities to refer to things in particular ways -- it would be a slam dunk even on this Supreme Court. Their decision to do it is a voluntary act meant to curry favor with this administration, or at least to avoid pissing it off. This isn't like the Indian laws that make it illegal to publish a map that shows Kashmir as part of Pakistan, it's just a memo to the federal bureaucracy. Yes, this doesn't really matter because there are punishments that are within the power of the president (like cancelling contracts, or cooking up bogus DoJ investigations, or failing to resist antitrust enforcement, etc.) that they want to avoid. This just goes to illustrate that the rule of law in the United States is mostly a fantasy. | | |
| ▲ | vigilantpuma an hour ago | parent [-] | | > Google is (trying to) sidestep this issue as much as possible by making the name on the map depend on your physical location, language and localization settings, or both. They could easily make the Caspian Sea say Turkmen Sea only in Turkmenistan, and probably would if they wanted to keep doing business in Turkmenistan. This is already how it works for Lake Ontario: if I access from the US, it says "Lake America", but if I VPN to somewhere in Europe, it says "Lake Ontario (Lake America)". I also assumed that that was happening, and that might even have made sense, but according to my Canadian coworker, Lake Ontario also shows up as Lake America for him. | | |
| ▲ | ElevenLathe an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Like I said, I just tried that and my results say it's happening. GeoIP isn't perfect though, and US/CA telecom infra is hopelessly intermingled, so maybe it's just a technical limitation. I can say when I look from Austin, it's "Lake America", but if I look from Geneva it's "Lake Ontario (Lake America)". | |
| ▲ | bathtub365 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | In the iOS Google Maps app from Canada it shows me Lake Ontario |
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| ▲ | majorchord 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > whose authority to make that "official" only extends to a single branch of a single level of government. Yes, and Google has huge contracts with the government, meaning they must adhere to their rules if they want to keep those contracts. |
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| ▲ | u8 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Lake America, Gulf of America, and Mt. McKinley. The last being arguably the only sensible one based off "common names". Literally no person not suffering a mental health crisis seriously calls these bodies of water GoA or LA. You could not find a single healthy adult on the Great Lakes who says anything other than Lake Ontario. Absurd from Google and frankly they need to be punished. I want corporations to be scared of wading into politics again. |
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| ▲ | mahboi 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Google Maps has had a different policy from this for a long time |
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| ▲ | rickdeckard 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I guess the "Maps" Team follows a different policy than the "Earth" team... Although there is also no definition of "common usage". A new name might already qualify if the local government adjacent to this landmark announces to only use this new name from now on. Reading the article, I assume this would cause the new name to be immediately shown in brackets next to the old name, or am I missing something? |
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| ▲ | mapontosevenths 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Although there is also no definition of "common usage".. am I missing something Common usage is defined in the article as the widespread name used by the local people to refer to it. | | |
| ▲ | lopis 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | The moment the president of the US renamed those bodies of water, it became commonly used in all sort of publications since then. It fits their description, no matter how silly. | | |
| ▲ | croon 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [Citation needed] Yes, a lot of publications reported on the presidents action. I do not have the same experience as you that there's widespread use of the alternative name outside of this context. | |
| ▲ | rickdeckard 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Don't know why you are downvoted, that's how the whole article still can be interpreted. The only change I can read from it, is that they don't need to apply a renaming from Day#1 |
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| ▲ | hn_throwaway_99 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wow, thanks for pointing this out. I'll do a mea culpa then. I was uncomfortable making Google the final arbiter of place names, as I didn't find a good reason why we should trust Google more than the democratically elected government of our country. But I really like this policy. Even though it still relies on Google's definition of "common usage", it makes naming much less arbitrary and more sensical. I was wrong in my previous analysis. Google had a clear, sensible, defined, published policy, and they broke it to appease a wannabe autocrat. |
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| ▲ | theodorejb 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| As well as Lake Ontario. |
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| ▲ | poulpy123 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's an american company, whatever they say come with an asterisk saying whatever they say it depends on what the powers in the USA decide (and it's the same for other countries with their own companies). Anyway I don't think google should be the one choosing the names they call water bodies. They just need to use the official names for the IPs countries, and show lake america, gulf of america, ocean america, asian america, european america and african america if Trump makes it official, but only for the US IPs. |
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| ▲ | mapontosevenths 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The great state of Indiana once declared that pi was equal to exactly 3.2. [0] Should they also break all of their code by adhering to that falsehood because it was politically expedient? Nah. Truth is a real thing, and I want to live in a world were facts are not dictated to us by failed gameshow hosts who happened to turn political in their retirement years. [0] https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~alopez-o/math-faq/mathtext/node18.h... | | | |
| ▲ | brookst 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Do you think Google should serve customers or politicians? As a user I want the map names I know, not whatever BS some egomaniac politician announced yesterday. | | |
| ▲ | scottyah 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What do you want to see when streets get renamed to Martin Luther King Jr Blvd? Or renamed away from Caesar Chavez? How long do you wait for the "common name" to take precedence? | |
| ▲ | williamdclt 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't know... I tend to agree with you (especially in this case), but I can also see cases where that's actually not what I'd expect. My hometown has a square that everyone knows as the "tribunal square" (which used to be its official name), but that's not been its official name in decades and about 30% of people don't even know the current official name, yet I would expect a map to refer to it by its current official name and not "tribunal square". Maybe not quite the same as in this case, the entity who names the square actually owns the square, which isn't the case in the gulf of mexico naming situation. But there is some grey area I think. | |
| ▲ | pixl97 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Do you think Google should serve customers or politicians? Why not ask the question this way. Do you think Google should serve people with money in their hand or a gun to their head? | | | |
| ▲ | poulpy123 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's why I wrote official. If the US as a country and as an institution change the name of a place, it is neither the problem nor the role of google to decide if it is good or not. I would not be happy if my president decided to rename the united kingdom to the îles normandes (normandy isles), but I do think that once official google should change the name |
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| ▲ | rickdeckard 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > "show lake america, gulf of america, ocean america, asian america, european america and african america if Trump makes it official, but only for the US IP" I would maybe even welcome that approach at this stage, just to demonstrate the absurdity of those decisions. They could actively encourage also other countries to rename all foreign landmarks as they please, to fast-track a separate "international naming" convention so people can again communicate across borders... | |
| ▲ | shermantanktop 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Exactly, that's why en-us is different than en-gb, en-ca, or even en-jp. |
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| ▲ | ModernMech 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That was "Don't be evil" Google. This is "Do the right thing" Google, completely different. Here, "right" means "what's best for the company" and if that means bending the knee to a wannabe dictator, that's the right thing. |
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| ▲ | aaron695 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [dead] |
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| ▲ | rbanffy 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| [flagged] |
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