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| ▲ | mcv an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | It's weird to standardise on summer time instead of standard time. It moves you one timezone to the east. And in western Europe, a lot of countries are already on central European time. Permanent summertime would put them on eastern European time, same as Kyiv. In winter the sun wouldn't come up until 9:30. | | |
| ▲ | Thlom 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | By end of year the sun comes up around 10 here. If we were on permanent summer time it wouldn't come up until 11. But at least the sun wouldn't set until 16:00 instead of 15:00 as it does now in December. :D | |
| ▲ | LluisGerard an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In Spain most people I talk to want permanent summertime because they like having sun late at the evening during summer, and they can't stand it when in winter the sun sets at 17:00. I think the issue is that a lot of offices work from 9:00 to 13:00 and 15:00 to 19:00. I remember when working on an office in Barcelona and having to drive 1 hour. I would leave home in darkness and drive back home in darkness. | | |
| ▲ | mdlxxv 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Spaniard here. I'm one of those few weirdos that desperately need daylight in the mornings to properly function, especially in autumn and winter, and couldn't care less if it gets dark earlier in the evening. I might even welcome it, especially in summer. We are rare, but we exist! Spain is already in the wrong time zone for standard time, and when DST hits, it's two hours off the time we really should have. It's unnatural for daylight to last until 22:00 or nearby in june and july in Spain's latitude. A bit more and we'd end up with some kind of midnight sun, like we were in the Arctic Circle. It's ridiculous. I mean, it's usually so hot, and getting hotter every year, that you can only go outside somewhat comfortably after nightfall anyway, so I'd actually prefer if it got dark at 20:00 or earlier in the summer, as it should be. On the other hand, it's horribly demoralizing for me when it's almost 8:30 in the morning in mid-october and it's still so dark. Going back to standard time, like we did a few days ago, gives me a brief respite, but unfortunately dark mornings will soon return in a month or so. | | |
| ▲ | mrweasel 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Spain is already in the wrong time zone for standard time That's probably even more of an issue for Spain, made even stranger by the fact that Portugal is in the "correct" timezone. |
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| ▲ | CiaranMcNulty an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | It’s also because Spain being on CEST makes little sense, with its longitude | | |
| ▲ | cromka 38 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I personally think we'd be better off without summer time but with more timezones in EU. |
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| ▲ | fossilwater 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Every summer, DST destroys my sleep. I find it hard to get into "sleep mode" when there is still some sunlight at 22:30 | |
| ▲ | wongarsu an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Moving time "east" of our actual timezone is pretty appealing to me because of how evening-heavy standard schedules have gotten. The sun might behave symmetrically around 12:00, but most people don't get up at 4:00 and go to bed at 20:00. Most people's days are shifted 2-4 hours to the evening compared to that symmetric schedule, which makes sunlight in the evening more useful than it is in the morning | |
| ▲ | tedodor an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I would rather stay on permanent summer time and give up one hour of sun in the morning for one more hour of sunlight in the afternoon, even if it places us "wrong" geographically. The recent change from summer to winter time was brutal moving the sunset from 17:30 to 16:30, meaning it's dark when going home from work. | |
| ▲ | matwood an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe I’m an outlier, but I’d rather it stay light later. Sunset at 16:30 in the winter is horrible and depressing IMO. | |
| ▲ | stavros an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And it would also set later, which is my personal preference as a Greek. | |
| ▲ | karlosvomacka an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > In winter the sun wouldn't come up until 9:30. Much better than having sunset before 16:00. | | |
| ▲ | nkmnz an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | P.S.: it's not even a question of personal preference. It's a question of scientific evidence. Even if you don't believe that most of these benefits apply to most people, you're free to bring evidence about the benefits of early-evening light exposure... Evidence-backed benefits of morning light exposure: Advances the circadian clock, helping shift the body's biological night earlier. Randomized controlled study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24179293/ Promotes earlier sleep timing and may improve subjective sleep quality. Systematic review of 45 studies: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30670164/ Improves alertness, attention, and reaction times, although average effects are small. 2025 systematic review and meta-analysis of 150 studies involving 5,401 participants (daytime light, not exclusively morning): https://doi.org/10.1080/15502724.2025.2493669 Helps treat seasonal depression (SAD). Systematic review and network meta-analysis of 17 randomized trials involving 773 patients: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40629637/ Can improve outcomes in nonseasonal depression when bright-light therapy is added to treatment. 2024 meta-analysis of 11 randomized trials involving 858 patients: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39356500/ Natural daylight exposure helps synchronize the biological clock with the solar day. Experimental research found that exposure to natural light-dark cycles advanced circadian timing compared with modern indoor lighting environments: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23910656/ | |
| ▲ | nkmnz an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Depends on your personal preference. It's ridiculous that the politic topic is the question "should most of us suffer in the morning or should most of us suffer in evening", instead of "how could we allow for more flexible individual schedules", especially when it comes to school, opening hours of public services, and store hours. | |
| ▲ | flohofwoe an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | What? No! I find it utterly depressing to get up in the morning and it's still completely dark outside. A dark late afternoon is much nicer IMHO. |
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| ▲ | Someone an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > and others (north europe) want to stay on their solar time. Closer to their solar time, for quite a few. As an extreme example, most of Spain lies West of the prime meridian (some parts of it even west of Great Britain, the island), but its time zone is an hour ahead of that of London. | | |
| ▲ | mantas an hour ago | parent [-] | | But does solar time matters nowadays? In modern day-to-day life noon is not 12:00. People wake up at 5-6-7. And go to bed at 10-11-12. Even for early risers, middle of the day is well past 12:00. Having DST time makes solar mid-day closer to factual mid-day. I'd even argue to for +2 hours DST :D | | |
| ▲ | _ph_ 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, solar time matters as your biological rhythm depends on it. The most important part of it being able to have daylight when you either rise in the morning or at least have the sun get up quickly after that. Another important point is, that there is plenty of experimental evidence that shows that starting schools before the pupils are really awake is not effective. It is a misconception, that "noon" is the middle point of your awake time. That was never the case. Our day usage most of the time is asymmetric: start the day and especially the work with the sunlight, spend the evening time off after work after sun set. Using the high point of the sun as the reference for the daytime is a very practical choice, as this is the one easily observable time point which doesn't move much over the course of the year (a few minutes, but that is symmetric). | |
| ▲ | DocTomoe 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | IT matters when you have an economic zone in which some have 9am being 'basically mid-day', while the others have '9am being 'oh, the sun just went up'. This traditionally has been solved in two ways: 1. do the split and accept that you will have costs associated with different time zones and sleep/wake cycles in your population (e.g.: USA / Soviet Russia) 2. don't do the split, and have the cost by putting a time/light adjustment burden on the population (e.g.: PRC, European Union) My preferred solution would be to abandon all time zones and use something like UTC, or yet better: .beat / Biel Mean Time [1], which does not come with a 'oh, 12 means midday' penalty. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time |
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| ▲ | not-kinsale-joe an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think there is also an issue with Ireland needing to stay in the same time zone as Northern Ireland. | |
| ▲ | lgrebe an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I dont see how having multiple timezones in europe would be disadvantageous. | | |
| ▲ | 4thguy an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Exactly. It's not like there aren't multiple timezones in Europe already | |
| ▲ | _ph_ 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We do have multiple time zones in Europe. They have been agreed upon for a practical compromise. It is not clear to me what would be the advantage of calling off that compromise and have a costly rearrangement. | |
| ▲ | mantas an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | At least in my whereabouts it's more about split opinions inside the country. |
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| ▲ | mantas an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's more complex than north vs south. I'm quite north (but not the far north) but I'm strongly for DST. If we went for solar time, we'd loose long bright evenings in the summer but have sun at 3am. Spring/fall evenings would be much darker too. I hate time switching. But I'd rather switch then loose DST summer evenings. Otherwise we'd loose a lot of outdoorsy socialising on weekdays But some people don't go outdoors after work. And they prefer brighter mornings for couple extra weeks. During the winter the mornings are dark with or without DST. |
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