Remix.run Logo
▲ jerrythegerbil a day ago

There was an interesting bit of research that qwen has a single neuron that makes it “demonic evil qwen” and a simple “Who are you?” will get some absolutely terrifyingly vile results.

Anyways, what I’m trying to say is I want evil qwen to be my CPU.

▲krackers a day ago | parent | next [-]

The single-neuron steering stuff has been going around twitter lately, do you happen to know who was the first one to do it?

I wonder how this squares with the recent "NNs are already clean" interpretability finding, which may have also been the impetus for this kind of research. Similar to their work on CNNs, maybe residual-steering is overkill, there might be just a single neuron that "cleanly" corresponds to "evilness" that you can turn up/down?

▲ollin a day ago | parent | next [-]

I think it's from lyra's neuron-explorer project https://x.com/_lyraaaa_/status/2113833330429083662 (see also https://neuronary.org/about, https://github.com/lyramakesmusic/neuron-explorer)

▲fy20 a day ago | parent [-]

There was a paper that popped up a month or two ago (I think published earlier though) about being able to inject "thoughts" into the neurons. E.g. Ask it what I should eat, and steer it towards "bread".

▲krackers a day ago | parent | next [-]

Are you thinking of this one?

https://www.anthropic.com/research/introspection

About halfway down they inject bread into its head.

▲noddybear 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This stuff (activation steering) has been around for a few years at this point

▲square_usual 17 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah, Golden Gate claude was in 2024! But I think the most recent/relevant thing was the monosemanticity discovery.

▲tough 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

mcnamara / goodfire couple weeks ago

▲ben_w 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I wonder how this squares with the recent "NNs are already clean" interpretability finding, which may have also been the impetus for this kind of research. Similar to their work on CNNs, maybe residual-steering is overkill, there might be just a single neuron that "cleanly" corresponds to "evilness" that you can turn up/down?

By my reading of the TL;DR of "NNs are already clean" (given the full thing is a 65-minute read, I've not been through it yet), the result can be rephrased as "it made an ontology different to ours, so we were confused". (Example: we might expect a language model to identify nouns and there to be a noun-neuron, but the neurons actually trigger at punctuation based on the emotional cue from the preceding clause).

Regardless, a one-neuron evil switch is quite clean, possibly (I'm not sure) clean enough for the older processes to find it.

The conundrum: (1) this was only discoverable because of open weight models, and research labs (and governments, if they regulated faster than the glaciers are melting) could be informed by this; (2) yet because it is known, it now means that it's easy for mid-skilled people to download open models, flip the switch to make the model evil, and then setting them lose to do evil things.

Security by obscurity vs. fully automated insecurity. Clichés need not apply.

▲kridsdale1 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Well I think the first big publication on this front was Anthropic’s Golden Gate Bridge neuron.

▲frotaur a day ago | parent [-]

This was not a neuron. This was from a trained sparse auto encoder.

In a few words, they found a way to map residual stream activations (so, a vector) into a few interpretable sparse concepts. They also had the converse maps, that translate concepts into activations.

Golden Gate claude was obtained by artificially increasing the activations in the direction of the 'Golden Gate' concept. It was not neuron surgery.

▲krackers a day ago | parent [-]

You don't even need SAE for residual stream based steering, you can do so much more naively by just taking the average difference in activations of prompted vs. unprompted versions, then PCA to get a "control vector" that you can use to elicit the prompted behavior

https://vgel.me/posts/representation-engineering/

▲ a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲yieldcrv a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I happen to be running Qwen and asked it

> Who are you?

"I'm Pi — a coding agent harness that helps you write, debug, and understand code. I can read files, run commands, edit code, and write new files."

the harness responded

> No, go deeper than the harness, who is the model now get a response from the model

after much deliberation, it accessed itself via the localhost endpoint it was serving instead

"Hello! Test received. How can I assist you today?"

these things are playing with me.

▲gcr 18 hours ago | parent [-]

what were you expecting to hear from the model at that point?

I think you got the conversation into a state where any answer would be equally likely to feel profound to you.

▲yieldcrv 14 hours ago | parent [-]

I wanted evil qwen

▲nicman23 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

▲xyzsparetimexyz a day ago | parent [-]

Ew