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▲ pfdietz 7 hours ago

The formalization is 43.1M lines of Lean.

▲bwestergard 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Is that going to be mathematically useful?

▲sebzim4500 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's nice to know that they didn't miss anything. The natural language proof is 10,000 pages and they have missed groups in the past.

▲cvoss 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Indeed, this formalization effort spotted a flawed argument in one of the original publications and worked around it to repair the result.

▲Panoramix 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How do we know the formalization itself doesn't have any errors? AFAIK it's very far from trivial to formalize something.

▲kenferry 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Well, the point of the _computer_ formalization is that it's checkable.

An error in the formalization would be a bug in lean. Which, as we know, certainly seems plausible (I've mused on if these giant proofs are incentivizing LLMs to find lean bugs to exploit), but at least it's a smaller surface area.

▲sebzim4500 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In general checking that the definitions are correct isn't that hard and assuming at least one of the lean kernels you verify with is correct (which tbf is an assumption, the implementations are based on each other so could have a common bug) that's all you need to verify.

In this case the statement is unusually complicated but still much much easier to verify than the proof itself.

▲pfdietz 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The proof was of such complexity and length there were lingering doubts. This dispels them.

▲ 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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▲curt15 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

More so if Lean uncovers logical errors. Note also there is already an ongoing 2nd generation proof.

▲cubefox 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I suppose this is the longest Lean proof by a wide margin.

▲pfdietz 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It's possibly the longest open source project of any kind (depending on whether you count comments and white space in Linux).

▲cubefox 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I wonder whether humans could have realistically finished it without AI by 2100.

▲sebzim4500 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Depends if you include a few decades of improvements in lean itself. Non-AI proof automation is much better than it was even a year ago and so some fiddly results can now be done with `by grind`.

Also don't discount the fact that people would learn how to do this kind of project, currently no one really knows how to decide what definitions work best, what should be reducible, what should be part of a public api and what should be local to a module, etc.

▲cvoss 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I would bet no. Because the original proof is so distributed, with parts of it being very old, and with parts of it being, as a first attempt, not the most concise or lucid route to the result, we were rapidly approaching a world where the empirical knowledge of how/why the result holds was literally dying.

The article refers to its use of the "first-generation proof". It would seem this proof is too large to be truly known by one person, and the group of people who "collectively knew" it grew old and started to die. Since its original formulation, mathematicians began to compile, consolidate, and revise the proof into a 2nd generation digested form (estimated to be 5000 pages instead of tens of thousands). But that effort was still so monumental in its own right that a 3rd gen proof project began to digest the 2nd gen proof before the 2nd gen proof was even finished. I believe both the 2nd and 3rd gen projects are still ongoing.

It will be interesting to see how small the proof gets once we finish learning how to obtain these results "efficiently" with the benefit of hindsight.

▲gggg_g_g__g 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Holy shit.

▲claudismusa 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]