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▲ skerit 5 hours ago

I wonder how the "It's all heavily subsidized!" people are going to spin this.

▲whizzter 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not really in that camp, but I'm still in the camp of "will they survive long-term if good enough open models trickles down to commodity hardware" (in a way the opposite camp perhaps?).

Sun made bank 25 years ago because their servers was needed for websites, today we run larger workloads on 5$ VPS servers (well maybe the VPS servers has gotten more expensive due to HW shortages but they're not intrinsically expensive anymore).

▲treis 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Think they're going to be like Oracle. Databases were a valuable thing when they were new but became free with postgres. Like Oracle Anthropic et al will move up the value chain.

▲deepwoods 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Subscriptions are heavily subsidized. 80% of their revenue comes from consumption-based pricing, which is not heavily subsidized (and probably not subsidized at all). The trouble is that this revenue is not especially reliable. If and when OpenAI gets the upper hand again, the consumption-based revenue could crater.

This may also be why OpenAI punted on their IPO: Anthropic has had the lead for most of 2026, so their consumption-based revenue is probably not looking pretty.

▲_aavaa_ 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Subscriptions are heavily subsidized.

The only subsidization that matters is if they are selling the tokens for a loss.

Yes the $200 plan provides more than $200 of tokens, but that doesn't mean that it's losing money, either on average or on a case by case basis. The realistic alternative isn't that every $200-plan-user pays the full Api price, it's that they pay Anthropic $0.

▲deepwoods 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I disagree that it only matters if the subsidy results in selling at a loss. Yes, some revenue is better than no revenue. But clearly the demand exists for consumption-based tokens. At its current growth rate, Anthropic could end all of its subscription offerings tomorrow and still be profitable as an enterprise by early next year. Every day that it doesn't do that, it's leaving money on the table, because it has to divert resources to less profitable subscription tokens.

Now, the reason they won't do that is because subscriptions provide a stable floor of revenue. The floor is lower than it could be because of the subsidies, and that's why they matter even if they do not bring prices down to below cost: if the growth of consumption-based spending ever slows or - heaven forbid - DROPS, Anthropic will need to cut into those subsidies to avoid a revenue slowdown, which risks sending away reliable recurring revenues (i.e., customers quitting).

Anthropic is kind of like the bus in Speed: if it stops moving it'll blow up. At least over the next 5 years, massive revenues won't be enough - it needs to sustain massive revenue GROWTH. They can pull two levers to do this: increase uptake or increase prices. So far, the "increase uptake" lever works like an infinite money glitch. But at some point, they'll need to look at the "increase prices" lever. When that happens, we will find out just how big the subsidies are.

▲_aavaa_ 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't think it's that simple. It's similar to why Adobe and Microsoft get their tools into schools and turn a blind eye to certain kinds of piracy; mindshare.

As a software dev, if I'm using codex at home and I'm happy with it, I'll likely choose it at work as well since I don't have to relearn the quirks of other models.

▲deepwoods 4 hours ago | parent [-]

That's a fair point. Maybe the subsidies aren't as relevant as I suspected. Thanks for the insight.

▲eigencoder 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've heard this a lot that the consumption-based pricing would be easy to switch, but I don't feel like that's how it works in B2B subscriptions. At the company I'm at, we have Anthropic subscriptions for employees. Switching to OpenAI would be a ton of work involving legal, IT, and every employee. I actually think there's a lot of stickiness even if OpenAI has some better frontier models.

▲bushbaba 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

F500 company I’m at switched off Claude code to copilot in 30 days across a 5000 person org.

There’s no moat. AI tools actually make the switching that much easier

▲deepwoods 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's an interesting perspective. Do you know if the deal with Anthropic has an exclusivity provision? In theory, you don't have to "switch," you could just ADD an OpenAI subscription and start splitting your spend (or not consuming Anthropic tokens at all).

Also, shouldn't your AI efficiency gains shrink the switching costs by a lot? Legal can review for cheaper, IT can implement faster, etc.

▲JumpCrisscross 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Subscriptions are heavily subsidized

Revenue less compute & infrastructure less sales, marketing & partnerships is positive!

▲deepwoods 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Approximately 80% of revenue comes from consumption-based spending, so your statement would likely be true even if subscriptions were priced below cost. Overall revenue is not especially informative on the price structure of a revenue stream that represents one-fifth of the overall enterprise.

▲JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> 80% of revenue comes from consumption-based spending

Why would this be exempt from any of the above categories?

> Overall revenue is not especially informative on the price structure of a revenue stream

It’s pretty informative on the business model of the enterprise!

If you’re quibbling that Anthropic has loss leaders, yes, sure. Whatever. So does Costco. Loss leaders converting into profitable sales is good business.

▲deepwoods 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm quibbling that Anthropic has loss leaders and that its profit leaders are extremely unstable. Imagine if there were three Chinese club stores in the same shopping plaza as the Costco. Sure, the regular Costco has the best products, but how long are you going to be able to resist the allure of even cheaper hot dogs?

▲JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> quibbling that Anthropic has loss leaders

This is a silly quibble.

> and that its profit leaders are extremely unstable

This is a fair one! Claiming Anthropic’s “subscriptions are heavily subsidized” is not.

The metric we need to question stability is churn rate.

▲bvcp 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

subscriptions use already paid for compute in the holes left by high paying api customers, its hardly subsidised, if you look at it objectively, subscriptions are 100% margin

▲kremi 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A podcast posted here recently had this number: 80% of ant revenue comes from just 8 customers. The consensus of the speakers was that if true, this would be indicative of a very vulnerable revenue structure. But this was based on leaks. Maybe we can have the real numbers now?

▲vanuatu 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

from the s-1, the top 5 customers make up 25% of revenue

▲mpaepper an hour ago | parent [-]

Who would be among those 5? Are these big tech? Or large corporates?

▲vanuatu 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

likely mag 7, big tech, megacorps like accenture, etc.

▲weieq2211 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And those 8 customers.. you think they will accept large price increases?

Hahahahahaha.

Those large customers are not a mom and pop store - they’re large market cap firms!!!

▲disgruntledphd2 3 hours ago | parent [-]

As per the S1, 5 companies were responsible for 25% of revenue in the 9months back from end of September.

Which feels like a carefully chosen statistic.

▲ 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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▲iLoveOncall 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Revenue is not profit?

▲xienze 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's very simple, if you just assume they never have to spend money on training ever again, they're wildly profitable.

▲iLoveOncall 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Compute is by far not the only cost associated with running a service, so, no?

▲lokar 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Are they doing the standard SV thing of pretending employee stock comp is free?

▲xienze 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Being sarcastic here. The usual argument everyone brings up "inference is extremely profitable, checkmate AI skeptics!" while dismissing the black hole that is training.

▲sm-silversight 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

Are these inference & training profitability numbers broken out in the S1?

▲tester756 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Profit is not relevant

▲dgellow 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s still the case. Subscriptions are heavily subsidized

▲weieq2211 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unfortunately for you - youre the pleb here.

If you’re not generating enough revenue to cover ALL expenditures - you are in effect subsidising as you should raise prices.

Why haven’t they? It would harm their business.

▲trollbridge 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They’ll just keep saying it is. That’s what they’ve done so far with DS