> That doesn't mean they can't learn some of these skills. But if they don't have by them by the end of freshman year, college is a waste of time for them.

I disagree, because muddling through one way or another grants the salary paper that makes it easier to have success in the rest of life.

> To be clear, I think one can be tremendously successful and valuable without completing or even attending college. As in no ambitious path is actually closed off from you. Unless it's research.

Again, I disagree.I mean, I agree on its face, in that a sufficiently motivated and capable person is capable of achieving success with or without a college degree.

But we're talking about people who aren't motivated and capable. The best path to something resembling success for people who lack the motivation and capability to be successful on their own, is to muddle through the university system and by whatever necessary means get the piece of paper.

College at large is not a waste of time for these people. Until the downstream society stops valuing a degree as it does, time spent getting the degree is not wasted, because it yielded the degree. If the paper is had, the time was well spent, regardless of how that time was actually spent or whether anything was learned.

> muddling through one way or another grants the salary paper that makes it easier to have success in the rest of life

True [1]. I'm not debating the individual incentives. (I wasn't clear about this.) I'm just not convinced a college graduate who muddled through is worth 75% more to an employer or society than a high school student who muddles.

> a sufficiently motivated and capable person is capable of achieving success with or without a college degree

For a binary measure of success, yes. A successful person empowered with a peaceful, rich society and challenging college experience will do better than one without.

[1] https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2025/what-happened-to...