| ▲ | happytoexplain 3 hours ago |
| It makes me feel actually sick that so many people can't separate their positive feelings about AI from people's misery (it must simply be "complaining"), and vice versa. As if both things can't exist, for some reason. It's a common tribalism problem, but it's been kicked up a hundredfold by AI. |
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| ▲ | jacquesm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Precisely. I have both feelings simulataneously. I am impressed by what it can do and horrified because I realize what it will do to the job market and society in general. Meanwhile everybody seems to believe that AI will cure cancer and therefore we should let it do all the damage it will do without realizing that people will die because of AI as well (in fact have already died because of AI). |
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| ▲ | tengbretson 2 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Despair is not a tribe. |
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| ▲ | 8note 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| if the complaints can be properly pointed at the actual problem - the corporate culture the complainers are actively upholding or the capitalist system at large, id be much more sympathetic its a tribalism problem, but one of trying to uphold the current tribe system while theres a pretty obvious new tribe system replacing it |
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| ▲ | bluefirebrand 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm not trying to uphold any tribe I just want to feel secure in my job. :/ AI has taken that security away from me | | |
| ▲ | otterley 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What are you doing to adapt to the new reality? | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What makes you think everybody will be able to adapt to 'the new reality'? That's pretty cruel. I know plenty of people in their late 40's 50's and 60's that were doing fine and who now have to compete with junior and Claude. And sometimes just Claude. Obviously they had no inherent right to income but still, people have obligations that need to be met and if they stop spending the economy is not going to be happy. Especially cruel because we have been telling everybody for decades that a career in software is stable and that there will always be a need for more people. I suspect that when all this is over 1929 will look pretty good. | | |
| ▲ | otterley 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > What makes you think everybody will be able to adapt to 'the new reality'? That's pretty cruel. I don’t, necessarily; but I do know that if you’re not even trying, then you’re putting yourself at greater risk. This isn’t one of those developments that people can just stubbornly dig their heels in about. Life throws obstacles at everyone. Learning how to dodge and weave is essential to survival. > I suspect that when all this is over 1929 will look pretty good. Oh come on. Let’s not be so dramatic, shall we? | | |
| ▲ | crabmusket 26 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > Life throws obstacles at everyone. This is sensible and pragmatic, but I think you're talking past the other commenter. Obstacles presented by, for example, your boss, or your company's competitors, or your political system, are not the same as obstacles like heartbreak, natural disasters, emotions, illnesses we cannot yet cure. > Learning how to dodge and weave is essential to survival. A lot of people perceive that elites are throwing dodgeballs at them in order to increase their own profits. Saying "them's the breaks, it's just the way it is" appears to be deflecting criticism from those elites and that system. It probably depends on whether you think we could actually feed everyone, today, if we chose to, or if you think e.g. human nature prevents that from being possible. | |
| ▲ | jacquesm an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Oh come on. Let’s not be so dramatic, shall we? You'd have said the same thing in 1928... Seriously: this is a massive problem that we are creating and given that the tools that make the problem require better tools to solve them I really am not all that happy about how this is going. | | |
| ▲ | otterley an hour ago | parent [-] | | > You'd have said the same thing in 1928... Hindsight is 20/20. Besides, what good is panicking? It won’t help with the inevitable; better to adapt and save for it. > the tools that make the problem require better tools to solve them You’ve found the opening :-) | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Sorry but you are coming off as utterly tone deaf and patronizing. People are losing their jobs. This is not a small thing and it will cause a lot of misery for those people. To effectively tell them to man up and to adapt when that simply isn't an option is losing sight of the human angle. Not every problem is a technical one and not every problem can be solved with technology. I'm not worried about myself, I've had a lot of luck in my life for which I'm super greatful. But I'm also quite aware of the exceptional position that puts me in and how many people are not so fortunate that they could probably live on their savings for the rest of their life if things ground to a halt. Most people live paycheck to paycheck, or they may have a few thousand bucks in savings at most. They've worked hard all their lives and simply were never in a position to save enough against this kind of eventuality because the deck was stacked against them. Have a heart, and realize that barring a couple of unfortunate moves it could be you looking at your last 500 bucks with rent due and a couple of mouths to feed. | | |
| ▲ | yuye 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | >Sorry but you are coming off as utterly tone deaf and patronizing. I agree, but I'd like to think these people come from a optimistic point of view. A lot of people don't seem to understand that the "human in the loop" is exactly the thing the big AI leaders want to cut out as much as possible. | | |
| ▲ | otterley 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I hate the idea that it’s considered “tone deaf” to encourage people to adapt to changing conditions. I’m not going to adopt a pessimistic tone and say “yup we’re all fucked, ain’t nothing we can do.” It’s intentionally changing the tone, not being deaf to it. | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 8 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's being willfully blind at this point in time. | | |
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| ▲ | otterley 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Sorry but you are coming off as utterly tone deaf and patronizing. I’m sorry if it’s coming across that way. It’s not my intent, and I’m aware that many people are a lost paycheck away from a crisis. But if you really think the right thing to do in response is to complain and commiserate, I don’t think that is helpful, either. I think it’s much better to encourage behavior that has a chance of being effective. If you think it’s somehow wrong to encourage people to behave in such a way that has a better chance of setting them up for success, then I vehemently disagree. > To effectively tell them... to adapt when that simply isn't an option is losing sight of the human angle. You must have a pretty low opinion of people if you think they can’t adapt. | | |
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| ▲ | debo_ 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | How long would you be able to sustain a mostly-comfortable lifestyle if you were to lose your job right now with no chance of finding new employment? If the answer is, say, more than a year, that might alter your perspective on the issue. |
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| ▲ | bluefirebrand 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Dunno yet. Thinking about going back to school and retrain for something else, because software is pretty much over for me That or swallow a bullet, we'll see. Haven't decided. We'll see how long my current unemployment lasts, and how long my savings last after that | | |
| ▲ | alex_anglin an hour ago | parent [-] | | HN stranger, I want to observe that you shared a suicidal idea. I'm sorry to read about your unemployment situation and know things must not be easy. As one HNer to another, I implore you to not to pursue that path and seek help in doing so. That we are members of this community confers to us opportunities to build knowledge that serve us well as life long learners. In that vein, going back to school is not a bad idea. Having been in this game for a long time, I get the negative aspects of the industry. They grind on me, as I believe they have for you. Choosing a different path is not an all or nothing proposition. Your knowledge, and you as a person, have value. I hope you find a way towards better mental health and wish you well on that journey. | | |
| ▲ | otterley an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Thanks for saying that. My sentiments are the same. Life is difficult for many, and we all struggle in different ways. I’m sure bluefirebrand has something amazing to contribute to this world, even if it’s not what they think it is right now. | |
| ▲ | yuye an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I appreciate your concern, because I feel the same way. However, you are wrong. >Your knowledge, and you as a person, have value. This is the exact thing AI is threatening to take away. | | |
| ▲ | otterley 33 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If you honestly believe that is true (and I do not) — don’t let it. Become something AI cannot replace. | | |
| ▲ | yuye 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >Become something AI cannot replace. What will it not replace, eventually? |
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| ▲ | bluefirebrand 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, you're right Been seeing a counselor for over a year already Went and made a doctor, guess it's time to look into medication Thanks Don't worry about me, I'll be fine. Been here before, just very unhappy to be here again that's all | | |
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| ▲ | vigilantpuma 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What are you doing? | | | |
| ▲ | micromacrofoot 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | training my replacement |
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| ▲ | epihelix 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | To be fair, many of us working outside of software engineering sadly never had that job security, even before AI. I'm sorry for your loss, but welcome also to the real world. You had it better than most for a long while. |
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| ▲ | aaron695 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | globalnode 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| if youre complaining then youre part of the problem buddy. get out of my way while i work on the future^TM /s |
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| ▲ | pessimizer 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| The distinction you're making between "people's misery" and "complaining" is just emotive pandering. You're complaining that people aren't understanding the depths of your misery. That certainly annoys me; everybody has problems. The amount of sympathy programmers are expecting others to feel about their problems has been kicked up a hundredfold now that its their jobs that have been threatened by AI. Their tribe feels pain more deeply than others, I guess. My positive feelings about AI are marginal; my feelings about its performance and the power of the people who scheme to control it are very mixed. My negative feelings about the whining of the most coddled profession on the planet outside of finance are intense. The problem is that making CRUD apps is not creative, and even if AI plateaus at mediocre, it will still replace a Rails monkey. If you are creative, AI has opened up a world of possibility and productivity, and you painfully feel the limitations and the stupidity of the current level of LLMs; but if you're a mechanic, it's over - I'm pretty sure that was the keynote at the last Rails con. Sorry. Hope you didn't spend all of your massive incomes on toys and rent. |
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| ▲ | hn_throwaway_99 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > The amount of sympathy programmers are expecting others to feel about their problems has been kicked up a hundredfold now that its their jobs that have been threatened by AI. Their tribe feels pain more deeply than others, I guess. Well, just wait then, lots of other professions will soon get to realize the same sort of pain, so you'll be able to be similarly dismissive and condescending to them, too. A lot of people don't realize that the frontier AI companies are so focused on automating software development first because they are all racing to be the first to get to RSI. I don't know if RSI will actually happen, but many, many other professions will soon be in the same boat. Mathematicians have already felt the pain, and those mathematicians who aren't the few who have tenured professorships are certainly not (generally) some of the most coddled professionals. But lots of folks low on the salary totem pole (copywriters, paralegals, etc.) are already being hit hard by AI and that blast radius will continue to grow. | | |
| ▲ | Karrot_Kream 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Plenty of other professions were hit by computing. Part of why programmers are so emotive about this concept (other than the fact that emoting online loudly seems to be much more accepted in software than other professions) is that programming has never been threatened in the same way as other professions have been until now. My parents-in-law started their careers as management consultants. The job in their time was much higher prestige and much higher value than it was when I started my career; free flow of information over the internet and commodification of spreadsheets changed all of it. From my parents' generation, I know practical effects folks who became unemployable once movies went to digital effects; engineers who found their draftsmanship skills obsolete. Folks with near-photographic memories whose entire superpower was destroyed by computing. I personally grew up in a blue collar community that was income depressed because its labor became commodified, though that was due to mechanization. | |
| ▲ | buzzerbetrayed 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > you'll be able to be similarly dismissive and condescending to them, too And? Who are these people that need all this sympathy from internet strangers? Grow the fuck up and go solve your own damn problems. I can’t stand these “I need internet strangers to tell me that my life is, in fact, hard” people. |
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