they've borrowed so much they're directly competing with national governments in capital markets.

nl 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

OpenAI has hardly borrowed anything. They have a $4B revolving credit line but have hardly touched it. They haven't issued any bonds.

Investment isn't debt.

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MisterMunchkin 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They owe people hundreds of billions, possibly even over a trillion. They've just been very clever in how they've structured it, so on paper they have low debt.

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Tanjreeve 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I think there’s some crossed wires here with the wider data centre build outs. OpenAI have their own flavours of sketchy behaviour but I’m not aware of them solely being on the hook for those amounts short of some weird accounting of Microsoft cloud costs onto them or something.

	▲	estearum an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Don’t they have a fully committed preorder for like $500 billion in compute from Oracle starting in 2028? And Oracle is funding that buildout with junk debt?

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CoolestBeans 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The rates environment directly dictates what capital is available to OpenAI and at what terms. When potential investors can get x% virtually guaranteed, then they are less willing to give cash for equity to OpenAI.

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bigyabai 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Investment isn't debt.

...yet.

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nojvek 11 hours ago | parent [-]

SoftBank is very leveraged with …… debt.

One of the biggest AI investors.

	▲	bigyabai 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		With investors like Softbank, who needs competition?

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Tanjreeve 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That’s mostly not the Frontier Labs. They’re definitely creating a lot of the demand but the people taking out those loans are Neoclouds and Big Tech (hence why Facebook + Google et al suddenly all have terrible cash flows after years of having more money than can be spent).

AnthropenAI are the ones driving a lot of that infrastructure spending when they’re such big consumers of compute but they’re not the ones feeling the brunt of the infra spending. Although those costs will bubble up to them indirectly eventually.

	▲	aenis an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Indirectly? They have contracted the capacity with the likes of Oracle, this is not 'debt' in accounting sense, but it is a financial commitment that will require either taking on debt, or getting more investors.