I can't take it seriously when someone compares Obama's comments about, say, Fox, vs. how Trump behaves.

The scope and the shamelessness of his behavior is unprecedented. Nothing any other president has done compares to what Trump has done, with the negative impact to the country, with such explicit opposition to American interests.

Off the top of my head: Illegal tariffs, sicking ICE on society with brutality, trying to overturn elections, constantly lying about election security to sow doubt in our democracy, declaring that any election he or the GOP loses is illegitimate, declaring that anyone who criticizes him is an enemy of the state, enriching himself and his friends with bribes and insider deals 10x what anyone could possibly claim any other politician in the US has done, selling pardons and stopping DOJ investigations for money, destroying the independent agencies that serve the country, threatening to invade allied territories, mocking our allies and reliable trading/military partners, betraying Ukraine for the benefit of his friends and Russia.

I cannot think of a way in which a determined deep Russian asset would behave differently than how Trump operates. If he isn't one, he's putting on a perfect impression.

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mangodrunk 2 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

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thunderfork 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I hope you don't think this is a strong response

	▲	verdverm 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		perhaps they are too "mangodrunk" as the comment thread gets deeper, they show more of their cards (poor media choices)

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unethical_ban 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was not always pleased with Obama's behavior, particularly around drone strikes, and I am always skeptical of going after the press, which he did far less than Trump has. I reject that "both sides" have operated on the same scope of malice.

Now,

You hand-wave the methods of ICE by speaking of the desire for immigration enforcement in general. I think uncontrolled, undocumented immigration is a problem, but not the problem, and I don't think sweeping up mostly-law-abiding undocumented residents and placing them into concentration camps, shipping them to foreign prisons for life, or killing them is the proper response. ICE recruits are not well trained, and the leadership was explicitly aggressive and hateful.

You incorrectly call the verified behaviors between the Trump campaign and Russia in 2016 a hoax. Mueller said action should be taken but that it should be handled by Congress, which did nothing. Counterpoints: https://wannabewonk.com/summary-of-hypocrisies/

You wave off the 2020 Congressional attacks and absolve him of any involvement, and ignore his calls to the GA secretary of state asking for more votes, wave off that everyone one his staff told him the election was legitimate while he continued to call it a fraud, wave off that all his claims about fraud have been rejected in court cases around the country.

You conflate my criticism of Trump's attacks on the voting system with a lack of interest in secure, reliable voting systems in general.

You may not be aware the recent pivots to Russia the invader and away from Ukraine the invaded. I'm interested in the extenuating circumstances that would justify taking the side of the authoritarian invader, supplying them with money and reneging on the spirit of bipartisan legislation signed last month to put more sanctions on Russia, while calling for the ouster of the leader of the invaded country.

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ModernMech 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You also have the option to learn more about these things, there was a whole violent insurrection you missed. Are you American? It was a big deal here…