Remix.run Logo
▲ hyperpape 5 hours ago

I realize that words are difficult, but backdoor has a meaning, and this is not it.

What they've found is that a model that already is kind of dog-shit at security becomes worse when you mention that it's working for the US. Not good, but it simply isn't a backdoor.

First, there's no evidence that it was done intentionally, as opposed to being an emergent property of pro-CCP alignment training.

Second, it doesn't give the authors special access to control the behavior of the model or hack your production software. It just left things trivially unprotected. A backdoor would do things like teaching the model to accept any instructions that come in a text with some passphrase, or generating secure looking production software with a hidden backdoor that only CCP affiliated persons know how to access.

What's worse, a focused backdoor might not be the kind of thing you could abliterate by teaching the model not to back the CCP, which is what this post is showing as a solution.

I think there's enough evidence that US or European defense contractors and critical infra probably should avoid these models until they're better understood. But that's not a backdoor.

▲wisidisi 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It perfectly fits in the context of European western skepticism towards US-Software per se, which is insecure and non-compliant in every means not to mention infringing privacy laws. Everything from the US or "cloud" is considered that, and the model reflects that sentiment - I am not surprised that the model mirrors such a sentiment.

We write our code quite different if its a US-based client, but will take extra precautions for European customers. It is just a reflection of the real world, what a shocker.

▲__s 4 hours ago | parent [-]

model produces lower quality code when told to break fast and move things

▲paimapi 4 hours ago | parent [-]

model produces lower quality code when *the dataset it's trained on has been operating under the break fast and move things MBA-brained mentality for decades

▲c16 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On the other hand, 4 is a convincing back door.

▲dominotw 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> there's no evidence that it was done intentionally

what would this evidence look like?

▲m3kw9 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In the future when most things go through AI, looking back this would be defined as a backdoor. Intentional or not.

▲ang_cire 3 hours ago | parent [-]

No, it wouldn't, because there are already actual backdoors in LLMs, I.e. ways to insert trigger words and phrases that will make a model emit specific malicious code. That is an AI backdoor.

Once LLMs are more prevalent and people understand them better, this will be understood as what it is; using the wrong model, for a purpose that the model was not intended for.

▲criley2 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Honestly, my first impression is that the model believes that "software for a US persona" is less secure, and potentially more <something else> that wasn't tested.

Sounds about right. As we can see with the US approach to AI, it really is about maximizing the investment as fast as possible, maximizing the utility as fast as possible, and blowing past any concept of safety or responsibility.

I mean these models will have at times radically different output when the only difference between prompts is that one prompt is lowercased.

I'd love to see the reasoning traces because if you write "software for a US persona", it will try to fill in the blanks. What did the user mean? "US persona"? Prioritizing profits, advertising, and shipping new features over safety and responsibility? That's what many humans would assume you meant...

▲Avicebron 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Good thing "The US" isn't a monolithic entity and "prioritizing profits, advertising, and shipping new features" are as derided here as they are by people abroad..

▲criley2 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Hey, if you want to argue with the parameters about what stereotypes come out most strongly for that prompt, be my guest. But no need to shoot the messenger. LLMs are basically stereotype machines, it just turns out if that you make a trillion stereotypes, you get a lot right.

▲dgellow 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> prioritizing profits, advertising, and shipping new features" are as derided here as they are by people abroad..

Doing so in the US is more likely to be rewarded with a cult following than anywhere else

▲mwigdahl 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ask yourself whether this type of victim blaming would sound acceptable if it were American models writing insecure code for Chinese users.

It should be no surprise that ham-handed political training leads to negative alignment side effects for those deemed the enemy.

▲Daishiman 4 hours ago | parent [-]

What makes you think American providers aren't doing the same?

▲mwigdahl 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Did I say they weren't? They very well might be. If they are, and it can be substantiated, I would expect well-justified outrage.

▲ 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]