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▲ lmf4lol 4 hours ago

We are building a Personal AI Assistant platform in Europe. Oh man. It is FREAKING HARD! We have now 20 paying users and it is amazing what those people do lol. You really can't make it up. The complexity of building such a business is something I've really underestimated. Especially if you allow the harness to evolve. For our 20 users, no sandbox is still the same anymore. Everyone customized it, has crons running, built apps or automations. And then jsut to think that Meta Muse went to a million users in literally no-time. I am not surprised at all. On the other hand. Zuck has literally infinite money to spend. You'd expect better than, right?

EDIT: Because someone downstream rightfully asked if we look at user's sandboxes: Yes! IF they ask us. Our users aren't engineers and often get stuck and even the LLM can't figure it out. THEN - AND ONLY THEN - we jack into the sandbox and help them.

▲m4rtink 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

So dump all my secrets, then have people running the service causually spy on me & brag about it on the Internet ? Marvelous, 10 out of 10!

▲bcvvvy 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah doesn’t look good.

To be fair agentic platforms are a shitty idea from a security perspective anyway. Everyone just threw that out of the window because shiny. Their funeral.

▲ForHackernews 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

... every cloud platform keeps an eye on what their users are doing. If you don't like it, don't use someone else's computer.

▲reliabilityguy 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Are you saying that AWS is peeking inside the VM you’ve deployed?

▲expedition32 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Microsoft is currently desperate to prove that they are not an arm of the CIA.

▲ 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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▲bossyTeacher 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why would someone use you rather than using a product from a frontier lab? Surely, you can't be cheaper than them unless your model is an open-source model? Anthropic already offers the equivalent of a cron job and app building tools (along with state management).

▲DelightOne a minute ago | parent [-]

Many people don't wanna depend on US products. If US switches them off, you are gone. Not even talking about privacy of US companies.

▲ 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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▲jonathanstrange 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Good to know how much you're "looking" closely after everything your customers are doing. The name of your company is in your profile, right?

▲lmf4lol 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes. We are Bluehouse. The homepage still sucks but we are working on a nice one right now without AI Slop :-)

▲yellow_lead 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Crazy to hear. So you look in user's sandboxes, does this comply with GDPR and other regulations?

▲timthelion 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Actually, for the purpose of providing the service its fine to look. They just aren't allowed to use what they see anywhere else. Just like your doctor hears about your health problems but can't sell your medical records. Whats with the nasty toxicity?

▲lmf4lol 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We only look IF they ask us. Our users aren't engineers and often get stuck and even the LLM can't figure it out. Then - AND ONLY THEN - we jack into the sandbox and help them.

For instance, one customer has 15(!) cronjobs. And they all used LLM calls to do stuff. So they ran out of tokens super quick and asked us for help because they didn' tknow what to do. Its not an engineering company, the owner has a sales background. So we went in and wrote scripts for them so that the cron calls don't need to use the LLM anymore.

▲sksksk 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That’s interesting, so in that scenario, you fixed it for that customer.

How do you then ensure it’s fixed for customers in the future? Do you add instructions to agents to write scripts where possible?

▲lmf4lol 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes. Or we make a skill of it and offer it via our skills marketplace. Depends really on what the fix was. Sometimes its really a one-off issue, and sometimes it makes sense to roll the new "insights" out to everyone.

▲sksksk 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Thanks!

Another question I have, is from a product perspective, how do you decide how much of the internals you show to users (like token usage).

I always thought that seems like (from a non technical users POV), like a implementation detail; and quite hard to map to actual usage. For example, one request might use lots of tokens, and another will barely use any; but it can be difficult for a non technical user to undertand the difference.

▲lmf4lol 2 hours ago | parent [-]

intuition and a lot of talking with our customers :-)

▲newswasboring 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I am not a user of your service, but a "system diagnostics" skill is something I have been meaning to develop for my hermes instance. Things like checking if I have left any running servers, cleaning up consumed linux ISOs from jellyfin, check for any repeated tool failures etc. Also its fun to say "run system diagnostics".

▲m4rtink 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even just the possibility anyone other than the user can "take a look" makes a service like this unfit for purpose.

▲weird-eye-issue 3 hours ago | parent [-]

You do realize basically every service does this right?

▲ryandrake 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

At the company I work for, a human being gaining access to “look” at a user’s actual prod data (anything that might contain PII) is super rare and very, very difficult. And I’m not even in Europe. At least a dozen people need to approve the access, including people very senior in leadership, you need to describe exactly what data you need to see, what the business purpose is, what steps you are taking to anonymize the data (can you live with a redacted view?), exactly how long you need that access, how you are going to destroy any copies after that access is finished, and so on. This employee access, IF approved, gets logged and can be scrutinized later. And I have absolutely no doubt if you misused that access it would be noticed and you’d be fired (it has happened). I’m pretty confident that nobody at my company is going on the internet and posting “OMFG LOL our users have such crazy data u should see it LOL.”

I always assumed most SeriousBusiness companies over a certain size, not run by 20 year olds, operate similarly.

▲m4rtink 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah, that is the correct behavior what I would expect in a business setting - its a basic decency, not to mention customers switching to competition if they find out their data is not protected.

▲m4rtink 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sure, which is why I think if one wants to run any agents with sensitive data, they need to be fully self hosted so that operators can't look into your data. Anything else is insane and will be used against you.

▲lmf4lol 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Do you feel the same way about emails, cloud drives or SaaS like Salesforce or Jira?

▲weird-eye-issue 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> will be used against you

I mean I'm all for privacy and security but this statement right here just comes across as pretty paranoid

▲customguy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> For instance, one customer has 15(!) cronjobs.

But they didn't ask US for help. We didn't need to know a customer of yours is running 15 cronjobs. Even if this factoid itself may be harmless, it's a good thing to practice on how you talk about these things. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, I don't know that, but I totally get why how you talk about it rubs some people (including me) the wrong way.

> Its not an engineering company, the owner has a sales background.

Again, it's good if you have a close relationship with your customers, but we don't, and they don't have one with us.

▲lmf4lol 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Thanks for the constructive feedback. I think you may be right about this. It thought it was anonymous enough in the way I phrased it. Just wanted to be honest.

▲dumpsterdiver 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

But why? We’re random people on the internet, and those are private customers. That information doesn’t benefit us in any way, nor you sharing it. It’s a bafflingly casual approach to handling trust.

▲customguy an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

▲not-kinsale-joe 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Can IT support in EU remote connect to view a users PC? or does that violate GDPR and other regulations?

▲baq 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If the user agrees it’s fine, GDPR is really not the biggest concern in this case since the user should express consent anyway.

▲strofocles 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

literally?

▲close04 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It's a topic that comes up once in a while, usually when it's less relevant to the point being made. The short story [0] is that it can mean both literally or figuratively depending on if you use it literally or figuratively.

> We define literally in two senses:

> 1) in a literal sense or manner : actually

> 2) in effect : virtually

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/misuse-of-literally