| ▲ | mbesto 2 hours ago |
| I have a house in Costa Rica where there a lot of expats living in communities need to self organize because zoning and permit laws are slow, bureaucratic, and basically unenforced. I cannot tell you how insanely inefficient and impossible it is to get 40 different families who all live on the same street to unanimously agree on something like a communal security system or a communal garbage can where all participants all fairly contribute and consume those services. And this is all done on a WhatsApp group over txt messages where nuance gets lost. People complain about governments being slow, but until you experience the alternative (I have) you will simply never understand why its the lesser of two evils. |
|
| ▲ | IgorPartola an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| So you are trying to DIY a government but with no prior experience? Sounds like a nightmare. |
| |
| ▲ | palata 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Well, everybody says that all governments in the world are absolutely incompetent, so it couldn't possibly be worse... or could it? | | |
| ▲ | contravariant 37 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Somehow the anarchists never seem to expect people to use their newfound freedom to erect a new government in place of the old. |
| |
| ▲ | psunavy03 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is literally what American HOAs are becoming. | |
| ▲ | mbesto 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Huh? I'm not trying to do anything per se. But the 40 people in the community are trying to create a safe and clean neighborhood environment. | | |
|
|
| ▲ | kaashif an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Isn't the alternative to government being slow government being fast? It's just that it can be fast by disregarding democracy, which is bad. You actually have a slow government and are complaining about it. You have not experienced any alternative to slow government. |
| |
| ▲ | derektank an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | It can be fast by disregarding consensus, which is different from democracy. The power of democratically elected executives is that they are, unless otherwise bound by rule or regulation, free to execute very quickly, but they will (generally) align those actions with the will of the majority of the public if they want to be re-elected. Elected legislators are a bit different but the same principle more or less applies; by trading consensus for majority acceptance, you can move faster. This is largely what distinguishes anarchists from lower case D democrats. | |
| ▲ | tpolm 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Somehow places like Singapore figured it out and it works well for them | | |
| ▲ | nylonstrung 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | As a defacto single party state, Singapore is definitely in the category of "disregarding democracy" like the above poster said "What a country needs to develop is discipline more than democracy" - Lee Kwan Yue |
| |
| ▲ | Eji1700 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | They essentially aren't describing a government. It's just a community, and yes, communities tend to suck because once you get over about 10 people you've got enough voices represented that no one anywhere can agree on anything. A majority rule just means you've got 10 people livid and 10 people maybe happy, and you can't even do that in these cases because you lack what a government has, which is authority. As they pointed out it's hard to get anyone to do their fair share, and unlike a government which can just MAKE you, they have no such option. | | |
| ▲ | mx7zysuj4xew an hour ago | parent [-] | | Government is community | | |
| ▲ | Eji1700 33 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Eh not really? Sounds nice, but the most important part of government is authority. If i tell my neighbor I will lock him in a room unless they pay their taxes, i'm a fucking lunatic. It is 100% within the governments right however to do so. You don't have to have the monopoly on violence to be the government, but it's often a defining feature, and where their authority stems from. A bunch of people together is just a community, and has no legal or other form or authority. If one of them decides to start stealing from the others, the appropriate retribution is mostly going to depend on who caught them. At that point you're closer to libertarian/anarchy which, technically, is a form of government, but often defined by its lack of one. You arguably have small governments all over the world where that's how it works, but there's pretty clean lines when discussing these things. Hell technically it's not a government unless it's running a state which is where a lot of this stems from. | | |
| ▲ | bumby 8 minutes ago | parent [-] | | So your saying authority is usually necessary to make large groups run well |
|
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | CGMthrowaway an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > impossible it is to get 40 different families who all live on the same street to unanimously agree on something There's your problem. You are requiring unanimous agreement? Republics (et al.) were invented for a reason. |
| |
| ▲ | philistine an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | That is exactly the point OP is making. If you do not have a mandate to govern from the people, you need unanimity from all homeowners. Those are the alternatives. | | |
| ▲ | Majromax 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > If you do not have a mandate to govern from the people, you need unanimity from all homeowners. Those are the alternatives. You don't strictly need a mandate from the people; authoritarian governments can be legitimate despite not having such a mandate. However, it's an impossible trilemma: successful action needs at least one of unanimity (parent commenter's approach), threat of coercion (government), or tolerance of free-riding (charity). | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | There are plenty of other alternatives. Where do you think organized crime came from? |
| |
| ▲ | palata 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | You're going down a slippery slope... a few more ideas like that and you will be creating... a government. |
|
|
| ▲ | mc32 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The issue I’ve seen with these lowest levels of governance is pettiness. Why did so and so get a break and not me five years ago? I don’t like plants why do we need a watering system? I’m allergic to mosquito foggers, can people just stay in at night, etc., etc. |
|
| ▲ | jongjong an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This sounds really efficient actually compared to the alternative in many developed countries where new houses simply do not get built at all after spending a lot of money on admin fees for nothing. "Nuance gets lost" well with centralized politics, the whole damn point gets lost. |
|
| ▲ | BeetleB 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > People complain about governments being slow, but until you experience the alternative (I have) you will simply never understand why its the lesser of two evils. A point that comes up over and over again when discussing HOA's. See the recent submission: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50144005 |
| |
| ▲ | solyin an hour ago | parent [-] | | Fun fact! What would be an illegal bribe to a city employee (eg planning/permitting department) isn't illegal if it's an HOA instead. No wonder they're popping up everywhere! |
|
|
| ▲ | ljsprague an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You still have "democracy"/governance there in your neighborhood in Costa Rica. |
|
| ▲ | ralusek an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > People complain about governments being slow You're literally describing a government |
|
| ▲ | juleiie 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [flagged] |
|
| ▲ | krylonmae an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Payola |
| |
